History Headscratchers / WhateleyUniverse

*** Just more evidence of the thick glaze of [[AuthorAppeal Author Appeal]] that sinks its ugly teeth into every story. Also, just because they are unchangeable from girls physically doesn't mean they have to act like stereotypes. If the authors had done the research, they would know that many [=FtM=] transgender individuals never undergo anything physical. But instead, every "Sensible" character, as well as the will of the universe itself, seems to constantly steer them from keeping boyish traits. Either the authors are sexist, or it's all just fetish fuel.

*** Just more evidence of the thick glaze of [[AuthorAppeal Author Appeal]] that sinks its ugly teeth into every story. Also, just because they are unchangeable from girls physically doesn't mean they have to act like stereotypes. If the authors had done the research, they would know that many [=FtM=] transgender individuals never undergo anything physical. But instead, every "Sensible" character, as well as the will of the universe itself, seems to constantly steer them from keeping boyish traits. Either the authors are sexist, or it's all just [[FetishFuel fetish fuel.]]

** Another big issue here is that the entry pimping is causing large amounts of HypeAversion (Just look at the reviews, or even half of this page). People come here expecting a TropeOverdosed story about a superhero school. They get Transgender Fiction with a slight AuthorAppeal slash FetishFuel bent that definitely does ''not'' appeal to a wider audience. Hence the heavy criticism.

* "She-male" is ''not'' a technical term or a term that transgender people use to identify themselves. It is an insult, one that most people stop using by the time they hit puberty. No one would say, "I'm what is called a she-male," when he is trying to explain his gender identity to someone close to them who is having difficulty accepting her as a man, and the rest of the characters' use of the term to casually describe Ayla's condition is ridiculous.

* "She-male" is ''not'' a technical term or a term that transgender people use to identify themselves. It is an insult, one that most people stop using by the time they hit puberty. No one would say, "I'm what is called a she-male," when she is trying to explain her transgender identity to someone close to them who is having difficulty accepting her as a woman, and the rest of the characters' use of the term to casually describe Ayla's condition is ridiculous.

*** As I understand it, [=ScramblerJ=] had planned out the story and all the others had finished the part in the group story where they all give their manifestation stories, and Phase distinctly mentioned "She-Males" and such. Since then, as far as I'm aware, he has NEVER used the word she-male or referred to Ayla's underwear fetish (which was unfortunately necessary to explain where Nikki got her silk underwear from).
*** Still doesn't change how flimsy the justification for this sort of thing is. Really, I wish people would stop trying to justify their transgender fetish and be blunt with it. Regardless of how you word it, characters who just 'happen' to have the genitalia of the opposite sex aren't written with depth in mind.
*** Well, I wouldn't say that's true for every work.
*** When in relation to Whateley I'd say it was.

*** Exceptions: Ayla Goodkind & Jobe Wilkins . While Ayla IS mostly a girl, he is definitely not into guys. He has a girlfriend and visibly ogles the girls in the morning in the bathroom. The female name thing was forced upon him and it is a common plot for him to somehow be forced into wearing female clothing. Jobe Wilkins has been turned into a girl thanks to a self-inflicted lab accident and not his mutation (He's a Mad Scientist of the biological kind). I'll admit that he is trying to bag the Nice Guy Thunderbird, but that is becuase of the nature of the lab accident. It was a serum that would turn a person into his ideal girl. One of the things that he included was that the first guy they have sex with, they will be dedicated to them body and soul. Since there are some very unsavory guys at the school, Jobe decides to pursue one of the few people that wouldn't take advantage of him.
*** The most noxious part of Ayla's story, IMO, was that as his big sister was transgender herself, she REALLY SHOULD HAVE (BLEEP)ING KNOWN BETTER than to force the gender roles associated with Ayla's new body on him.
*** Grace, Ayla's sister, does actually burst into tears multiple times and admits feeling awful... but apparently not enough to not trick Ayla into shopping sprees and makeovers

* They take AdultsAreUseless a bit far. Sure, there is some justification in the fact that the kids all have superpowers, but any school that makes [[EndersGame Battle School]] look like a safe and wholesome learning environment is doing something seriously wrong.

* The dialogue between the Kimbas also tends to follow a pretty tedious formula: Subject is brought up; everyone comments on it as though they all took a number and have to reply in sequence; new subject is brought up; repeat. This is especially frustrating when these conversations are taking place as asides while some other character speaks, a la MST3K but ignoring the fact that clever asides actually do not happen instantaneously. This makes the dialogue feel forced and "clever" and formulaic.

** He does not. It is explicitly against school rules. He does have an elaborate fantasy about it once (in "Ayla and the New School") complete with an EvilLaugh at the end, which is probably where whatever you read came from.

** They never mension it in the story, but jade has a very good reason to keep her powers hidden. Tansy has shown that even a weak avatar can take one of her spirits and become more powerful. Consider Jade is an infinite supply of avatar spirits when it comes down to it she could be in greater danger of kidnapping then the girl that sweats mithral.

* Okay, so I don't actually read this stuff, so I might be missing context, but one thing I've read about concerning Arya/Phase is that apparently he, unless I read it wrong, uses his vast business connections to go after the bullies by threatening to ruin them and their families unless they sign a contract and agree to play nice. There are kinda some problems with this… 1. That'd be extortion, which is illegal, 2. Even if it weren't extortion, it would ''certainly'' count as duress, making such a contract invalid, and 3. Minors can't be held to contracts. Sounds pretty sketchy for anyone who's taken so much as an entry-level course in business law that touches on contracts.

* ElephantInTheLivingRoom time: So, being an unregistered mutant is a felony. Moreover, your mutation manifesting generally comes with telltale physical changes (minimum new eye color -- which should be a matter of public and medical record right there --, much more drastic stuff for people with a BIT or the GSD cases), and it does so at puberty, a time in your life when you're arguably really, ''really'' not ready yet to deal with all the implications. In lights of all that, how do "secret identities" for mutant superheroes and -villains even ''work''? ''Do'' they work at all, or is the fact that they ultimately actually don't just another one of those little "gotchas" that (like having to apply for an MID or leave the school, or the existence of combat finals) the Whateley staff like to spring on their students only when it's already too late?

**** The most noxious part of Ayla's story, IMO, was that as his big sister was transgendered herself, she REALLY SHOULD HAVE (BLEEP)ING KNOWN BETTER than to force the gender roles associated with Ayla's new body on him.

*** No, the mind is not the plaything of the body! The whole point behind the Body Image Template is that the body takes on the form that the mind holds as 'What I would like to look like'. The people whose BIT is of a woman when they were born a man is either A) (as in most cases) a Transgendered person who is happy to switch their body's sex, or B) (as in Ayla's case) a 'regular' person who has been convinced that all mutants are "freaks" and so are all transgendered people, (or words to that effect) so that when they manifested, their idea of "mutant" was genderswapping.

*** Explained, sorta. As a rule in the setting, Male to Female Transgendered mutations are ''not'' curable. Granted, the explanation is kinda a AssPull / HandWave, but it almost, not quite justifies it: The Newly Ka-Girled have no choice but to get used to it, because they ''won't'' be changing back, ''ever''. Jade's situation is different, she's not the victim of an InvoluntaryTransformation like the other ones, she's an honest to god Transgender hoping for an AppliedPhlebotinum solution to gender bending. ~~ [[{{Tropers/KiTA}} KiTA]]

* "She-male" is ''not'' a technical term or a term that transgendered people use to identify themselves. It is an insult, one that most people stop using by the time they hit puberty. No one would say, "I'm what is called a she-male," when she is trying to explain her transgender identity to someone close to them who is having difficulty accepting her as a woman, and the rest of the characters' use of the term to casually describe Ayla's condition is ridiculous.

*** Still doesn't change how flimsy the justification for this sort of thing is. Really, I wish people would stop trying to justify their transgendered fetish and be blunt with it. Regardless of how you word it, characters who just 'happen' to have the genitalia of the opposite sex aren't written with depth in mind.

** I think the series would've been much better in many aspects if it was a college ala TalesOfMu. Less {{Squick}}, and the characters act closer to twenty than 14 anyway.

** The irony is that since you've linked it, the site is shoe-horned into ANOTHER article. In all seriousness, this stuff is okay. If a work just happens to have a lot of tropes, then it's okay to have it pimped into a lot of articles. Just because you don't think it's a notable work, doesn't mean it doesn't deserve a spot on Tropes. Remember, NoSuchThingAsNotability covers this.

*** As I understand it, [=ScramblerJ=] had planned out the story and all the others had finished the part in the group story where they all give their manifestation stories, and Phase distinctly mentioned "She-Males" and such. Since then, as far as I'm aware, she has NEVER used the word she-male or referred to Ayla's underwear fetish (which was unfortunately necessary to explain where Nikki got her silk underwear from).
**** Still doesn't change how flimsy the justification for this sort of thing is. Really, I wish people would stop trying to justify their transgendered fetish and be blunt with it. Regardless of how you word it, characters who just 'happen' to have the genitalia of the opposite sex aren't written with depth in mind.
**** Well, I wouldn't say that's true for every work.
**** When in relation to Whateley I'd say it was.
***** In my mind, I think Ayla works as a character with the whole intersexed male-brain thing - among other things, it gives him something tangible to cling to and rationalise his still-male gender identity, while around him everyone else goes 'lol girlnow brb shopping'. Gracie, however, doesn't. ScramblerJ doesn't deserve to be defended, but Diane did the best she could with it. The ONLY vague justification I've seen for Gracie even BEING intersexed is 'it means I can still be male legally and marry Janet'. Which is broken anyway, seeing as it's possible to still be classed as male after SRS... and it'd make more sense to just move. If you're in such a goddamn prejudiced area why don't you MOVE? I mean... just... ARGH.

* Bender's tale makes me want to kill things. A guy is turned into a girl, and is expected to just accept it. Because his former life is "old data" and no longer correct. NO. You have just created a new transsexual, and he is still a guy inside that new body! The gender-flip may be fine for the ones who were already transgender and are not what they feel they should be, but lets have some actual THOUGHT about making new ones who are apparently supposed to just accept their new sex. Some of the writers actually think on it. Some don't. You can practically tell which they are by which ones describe Phase as male or female. Phase thinks of himself as male, therefore he is male. The only pass in this regard is that characters can think differently, but you'd think Phase's '''friends''' would have realised by now.

***** If you think about it though, mental illnesss could be seen as a temporary trauma from manifestation. The fellow students could probably overlook that temporarily, especially as many viewpoint mutants have had rather traumatic backstories. Being "nuts" gets you sympathy in this case. Being "gay" however, is still not acceptable in their minds.

** Agreed; reading through the tales of a GodModeSue isn't pleasent

** Even the incompetence of the teachers and security is fickle. Half of the time they seem to have omniscient knowledge of where all students and intruders at the school are using sensors and trackers, and the other half they have no idea what is going on or completely miss entire altercations. Plus, to some victimized students the keep saying, "Hey, you need to stand up for yourself! Fight back!" But to Ayla, the only openly intersexed student at a school of largely ignorant students, they can't believe that kids are mean enough to pick on people who are different, and maintain "She must be causing trouble, or she wouldn't get into so many fights." and constantly berate her for barely defending herself.

* The HumiliationConga at the end of the Shoulder Angel conspiracy. Two EXTREMELY minor villains (Who did, to be fair, try to kill one of the protagonists - Though they failed) end up being expelled from Whateley, having the authorities informed as to their actions, beaten up, lose every possession they have, and are then given to sadistic government officials to be tortured to death. Oh, and the people who used them as cats-paws got away with no or minimal punishment. I cheered when CompleteMonster Don Sebastiano got what he deserved - but these guys are punks, and the 'heroes' just [[MoralDissonance handed them over to the nastiest people to ever appear in this series.]] If they'd stopped after the third point (Expelled, no future prospects, injured) I would've called it justice. If they'd stopped after the fourth, well, can't say they didn't deserve it. But NOBODY deserves Doctor Hammond.

** It could be that less sentient beings are less nutritious; I recall Sara eating a potted plant as a snack, presumably as it isn't self aware.

*** Just more evidence of the thick glaze of [[AuthorAppeal Author Appeal]] that sinks its ugly teeth into every story. Also, just because they are unchangeable from girls physically doesn't mean they have to act like stereotypes. If the authors had [[DidNotDoTheResearch done the research]], they would know that many [=FtM=] transgender individuals never undergo anything physical. But instead, every "Sensible" character, as well as the will of the universe itself, seems to constantly steer them from keeping boyish traits. Either the authors are sexist, or it's all just [[FetishFuel fetish fuel.]]

*** There is that. I don't care how much smarter a given student's mutation is supposed to make them (and many don't even have that excuse), a fourteen- or fifteen-year-old should still have only fourteen to fifteen years of total life ''experience'' to draw on. Consequently, it's a bit hard to swallow them, say, plotting and scheming against each other in precisely the same ways that people ten or twenty years their seniors plausibly might... -- The most likely explanation, of course, is that the ''authors'' are themselves a good bit older than teenagers these days. So is, presumably, their target audience. Whether or not that excuses the ''characters'' acting older than they are as well...YourMileageMayVary.

*** "Fetish" might be pushing it. While it's true that it started on Sapphire's Place, it was never put forth as being sexualized. Compare it to TheWotch or ElGoonishShive, for example -- both are GenderBender / TransformationComic comics but aren't "Fetishy".