History Headscratchers / TheCatcherInTheRye

* I admit this might be [[LostInTranslation because I read a translated edition]], but how did Holden mishear "Coming Thru The Rye" to have that "Catcher In The Rye" delusion? Or, more specifically (if possible), what exactly could he [[{{Mondegreen}} think the lyrics said]]?

** Like [[JaneEyre Rochester]] before him, his charisma is in the eye of the beholder--and he's certainly self-loathing with an internal conflict and FreudianExcuse. How much more do you need?

*** It hardly has universal appeal -- it's definitely one of those LoveItOrHateIt books (though it probably wouldn't get nearly so much hate if it wasn't forced on kids in high school). There doesn't seem to be a lot of middle ground.

* How is Holden a ByronicHero? He's not very charismatic, not self-critical (he's very much the opposite), and not an internally motivated person, content to just complain about the world rather than do something about it. Holden doesn't even live up to his own standards of not being a phony, pretending to be "Rudolph" (or was it Rudolf?) to another classmate's mother, to give an example, and doesn't even try.

* How is Holden a ByronicHero? He's not very charismatic, not self-critical (he's very much the opposite), and not an internally motivated person, content to just complain about the world rather than do something about it. Holden doesn't even live up to his own standards of not being a phony, pretending to be "Rudolph" (or was it Rudolf?) to another classmate's mother, to give an example.

* What I don't understand about Holden's ideas about keeping children innocent is how will they be passed on? If part of that is keeping them away from sex, who will inherit his ideas and ideals? Most information is passed from parent to child. Most times, people have to have sex in order to have children.

** I don't know about the "manipulative" part, but Holden comes across as an arrogant jerk for how much he criticises the world and the society without ever looking at his own reflection to ask himself if he's any better. He implicitly acts as if it's the world's fault that his life's in the crapper, and rarely if ever acknowledges his own numerous mistakes in the narration,

* What I don't understand about Holden's ideas about keeping children innocent is how will they be passed on? If part of that is keeping them away from sex, who will inherit his ideas and ideals? Most information is passed from parent to child. Most times, people have to have sex in order to have children.

** I don't know about the "manipulative" part, but Holden comes across as an arrogant jerk for how much he criticises the world and the society without ever looking at his own reflection to ask himself if he's any better. He implicitly acts as if it's the world's fault that his life's in the crapper, and rarely if ever acknowledges his own numerous mistakes in the narration,

** Maybe it was Salinger's pet word. According to our "WantonCrueltyToTheCommonComma" article, LewisCarroll insisted that the proper contraction of "can not" was "ca'n't", and spelled it thusly in everything he wrote. This was patently absurd, but people just get on crusades sometimes.

** The only time I can remember where he says something nice about someone or something he doesn't like and it isn't just to make the bad things he says about him/her/it seem worse is saying Stradlater is a nice guy, and he was saying it to someone whom he really liked to annoy and who hated Stradlater. And considering he doesn't seem to like anything, that's saying a lot.

* I admit this might be [[LostInTranslation because I read a translated edition]], but how did Colden mishear "Coming Thru The Rye" to have that "Catcher In The Rye" delusion? Or, more specifically (if possible), what exactly could he [[{{Mondegreen}} think the lyrics said]]?

** Most people agree that the nine {{Character Alignment}}s exist, f'ex, but not everybody agrees on who falls into which alignment because they (the classifiers, not the classified) have differing criteria for "good", "chaotic", "neutral" and etc. It doesn't help that Holden (like a real person) falls into differing alignments at different times, as he is willing to break ''or'' follow rules, be a jerk ''or'' a nice guy, according to the situation he is in at the time. In the end, it stops depending on who Holden is and starts being about who the ''observer'' is. Do they fixate on nice people or mean people? Because Holden is both.

* Why does everyone say that Holden is a jerk and that he's "manipulative"? Sure, he uses bad words and lies about his age so that he can get drunk, but he seems like a pretty nice guy beyond that. He always has something sympathetic to say even if he doesn't initially like a person, and to me he's more of a CloudCooCooLander (thinking about random things, in his own little world, the "where do the ducks go in the winter when they can't use the pond" thing) than any of that. I heard about the book and expected him to be like Malcolm (a sociopath almost) from Malcolm in the Middle, but he seems to just be a disoriented guy who doesn't know what he's talking about and always wavers between oppinions. Holden really does.