History Headscratchers / ForgottenRealms

5th Jul '16 8:45:12 PM malonkey1
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** No, what Kelemvor was saying wasn't that he didn't want to save the world, but that he didn't see how he'd be able to do so since he couldn't conceive of a reward big enough to satisfy the curse; his mistake was in a) not realizing saving the world he's on is indeed in his own best interest b) not considering that if he didn't save the world because there was no reward big enough it would matter little that he turned into a panther and killed someone since they'd all soon be dead anyway and c) not considering that the book could be depicting a time during which he was no longer cursed. So, IdiotBall all around, but it isn't proof of him being a jerk. Nothing says heroes have to be intelligent, and in many ways Kelemvor wasn't.

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** No, what Kelemvor was saying wasn't that he didn't want to save the world, but that he didn't see how he'd be able to do so since he couldn't conceive of a reward big enough to satisfy the curse; his mistake was in a) not realizing saving the world he's on is indeed in his own best interest b) not considering that if he didn't save the world because there was no reward big enough it would matter little that he turned into a panther and killed someone since they'd all soon be dead anyway and c) not considering that the book could be depicting a time during which he was no longer cursed. So, IdiotBall all around, but it isn't proof of him being a jerk. Nothing says heroes have to be intelligent, and in many ways Kelemvor wasn't.wasn't.
* If the Wall of the Faithless exists to punish those who don't worship a god, then why does it tend to be at least semi-obscure, and sometimes even secret, to most people? If it's intended as some kind of punishment, shouldn't that be information that everybody should at least have some passing knowledge of? I get Myrkul keeping it quiet because he was a real asshole, but Kelemvor never seemed like the kind of god to do that to people without at least letting them in on what's happening beforehand.
17th Sep '15 7:36:20 PM Navitas
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**** It's also possible that Eilistraee claimed him, as non-evil drow fall under her domain and the gods ''do'' have the power to speak up for a soul they want.
19th Jan '15 1:06:31 PM LBHills
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** I haven't read the book myself(I've read the early drizzt books and the later ones, but not the middle), but as I understand it, Cadderly is the one who set up the messenger spirit ritual thing, correct? Possible that Cadderly staged the whole thing to spare Drizzt the grief of knowing that his father is either slowly melting into a wall, or is at the mercy of either Kelemvor or Lolth.
*** Prior to 3rd Edition, which occurred in-universe due to the Time of Troubles, souls went to planes based on their alignment. In other words, Zaknafein went to the plane of his alignment which was probably CG at the moment of his death.
*** The Time of Troubles was the 1st to 2nd edition transition.

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** I haven't read the book myself(I've myself (I've read the early drizzt Drizzt books and the later ones, but not the middle), but as I understand it, Cadderly is the one who set up the messenger spirit ritual thing, correct? Possible that Cadderly staged the whole thing to spare Drizzt the grief of knowing that his father is either slowly melting into a wall, or is at the mercy of either Kelemvor or Lolth.
*** Prior to 3rd Edition, which occurred in-universe due to the Time of Troubles, souls went to planes based on their alignment. In other words, Zaknafein went to the plane of his alignment which was probably CG at the moment of his death.
*** The Time of Troubles was the 1st to 2nd edition transition.
death.



* On a similar note to the above, where do Nay Thiest types go? That is, those who don't ''disbelieve'' the existence of the gods (like the Faithless) or feign piety without actually having it (like the False)? Example: Artemis Entreri admits that he knows the gods exist, but due to his FreudianExcuse he doesn't pay homage to any of them. When he eventually dies and his soul flies the Material Plane, does he get stuck in the mossy wall/wind up as a servant of the then-current God of Death, or does he just wander around the Gray Planes forever?
** I'm pretty sure they count as faithless; they believe the gods exist but they don't have any faith in them.
*** Ah, cool. Kelemvor is pretty chill as far as Gods of Death go - supposedly he gives you leniant/cushy jobs-for-eternity depending on your offenses - so it's possible to get off fairly lightly if you don't mind being a messenger boy forever.

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**** This is the sort of loophole that would ordinarily lead to yet another tie-in novel, but, well, 4th Edition.
* On a similar note to the above, where do Nay Thiest NayTheist types go? That is, those who don't ''disbelieve'' the existence of the gods (like the Faithless) or feign piety without actually having it (like the False)? Example: Artemis Entreri admits that he knows the gods exist, but due to his FreudianExcuse he doesn't pay homage to any of them. When he eventually dies and his soul flies the Material Plane, does he get stuck in the mossy wall/wind up as a servant of the then-current God of Death, or does he just wander around the Gray Planes forever?
** I'm pretty sure they count as faithless; Faithless; they believe the gods exist but they don't have any faith in them.
*** Ah, cool. Kelemvor is pretty chill as far as Gods of Death go - supposedly he gives you leniant/cushy lenient/cushy jobs-for-eternity depending on your offenses - so it's possible to get off fairly lightly if you don't mind being a messenger boy forever.
11th Sep '14 12:52:14 PM Helmar
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** The gods in question argue/barter over the soul in question. This can be seen in a novel in Kelemvor's court; a man donated coin to one god, but died a heroic death qualifying him for service to another god, so both gods argue over in which god's realm the soul belongs.
24th Jun '14 10:37:55 PM psionycx
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* Or, since this is a polytheistic setting, what about people who worship more than one god? For example, a merchant who trades in food might offer prayers to Chauntea (agriculture), Waukeen (trade) and perhaps even Umberlee (the sea) if he ships goods via water. It can't be expected that everybody in the world is henotheistic (acknowledging that there are many gods but only worshiping one). After all, other than highly specialized people (clerics, paladins, etc.) most people have more than one focus of concern in their lives, and all of the gods in the Realms have very specific portfolios. Your average person's needs cannot all be handled by any one god.
28th Mar '13 10:58:58 PM Ingonyama
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** No, what Kelemvor was saying wasn't that he didn't want to save the world, but that he didn't see how he'd be able to do so since he couldn't conceive of a reward big enough to satisfy the curse; his mistake was in a) not realizing saving the world he's on is indeed in his own best interest b) not considering that if he didn't save the world because there was no reward big enough it would matter little that he turned into a panther and killed someone since they'd all soon be dead anyway and c) that the book could be depicting a time during which he was no longer cursed. So, IdiotBall all around, but it isn't proof of him being a jerk. Nothing says heroes have to be intelligent, and in many ways Kelemvor wasn't.

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** No, what Kelemvor was saying wasn't that he didn't want to save the world, but that he didn't see how he'd be able to do so since he couldn't conceive of a reward big enough to satisfy the curse; his mistake was in a) not realizing saving the world he's on is indeed in his own best interest b) not considering that if he didn't save the world because there was no reward big enough it would matter little that he turned into a panther and killed someone since they'd all soon be dead anyway and c) not considering that the book could be depicting a time during which he was no longer cursed. So, IdiotBall all around, but it isn't proof of him being a jerk. Nothing says heroes have to be intelligent, and in many ways Kelemvor wasn't.
28th Mar '13 10:57:52 PM Ingonyama
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** The curse is a 'wild' curse; his ancestor was cursed to turn into a panther if he ever took money for a action (or something similar to that). Other parts... don't make sense.

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** The curse is a 'wild' curse; his ancestor was cursed to turn into a panther if he ever took money for a action (or something similar to that). Other parts... don't make sense.sense.
** No, what Kelemvor was saying wasn't that he didn't want to save the world, but that he didn't see how he'd be able to do so since he couldn't conceive of a reward big enough to satisfy the curse; his mistake was in a) not realizing saving the world he's on is indeed in his own best interest b) not considering that if he didn't save the world because there was no reward big enough it would matter little that he turned into a panther and killed someone since they'd all soon be dead anyway and c) that the book could be depicting a time during which he was no longer cursed. So, IdiotBall all around, but it isn't proof of him being a jerk. Nothing says heroes have to be intelligent, and in many ways Kelemvor wasn't.
5th Dec '12 9:54:45 PM TweaktheWhacked
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**** But the Wall of the Faithless ''did'' exist in pre-Avatar Crisis realms. It's not someting Kelemvor put up to be a dick, it's something Myrkul put up to be a dick. There's no indication that Zak worshiped any of the goodly deities and he certainly didn't worship Lolth. He ''might'' have worshiped Vhaeraun but we don't get any indication of that, either. By all rights, he should be just another brick in the wall by now.
2nd Dec '12 5:34:47 AM Underachiever
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*** Still, Zaknafein died before Drizzt even left the Underdark while the Avatar Crisis only hit after Bruenor and his clan had already retaken Mithril Hall. In chronological order there are at least five books and a fair number of in-universe years separating the two events.
30th Sep '11 11:53:04 AM cliffc999
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*** The Time of Troubles was the 1st to 2nd edition transition.
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