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** I'm presuming Marvel is red and DC is blue going by the logos of their recent productions.
to:
** I'm presuming Marvel is red and DC is blue going by the logos of their recent productions.productions.
* Why were half the heroes doubled up in their amalgams? Wonder Woman was Freelance and Amazon, Batman was Dark Claw and Agent Bruce Wayne, Quicksilver was Nickel and Mercury, There Was Iron Lantern Hal Stark but there was also Tony Stark in Shield and a Hal Jordan in Speed Demon. Catwoman was Selina Luthor and Catsai, and it goes on. Why was it like this?
* Why were half the heroes doubled up in their amalgams? Wonder Woman was Freelance and Amazon, Batman was Dark Claw and Agent Bruce Wayne, Quicksilver was Nickel and Mercury, There Was Iron Lantern Hal Stark but there was also Tony Stark in Shield and a Hal Jordan in Speed Demon. Catwoman was Selina Luthor and Catsai, and it goes on. Why was it like this?
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* Having read and re-read the Marvel vs DC mini series, I am still confused as to which brother is which... both brothers are seen with characacters from both universes but I just want clarification. Red or blue, who is who?
to:
* Having read and re-read the Marvel vs DC mini series, I am still confused as to which brother is which... both brothers are seen with characacters characters from both universes but I just want clarification. Red or blue, who is who?
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Changed line(s) 1,2 (click to see context) from:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is ComicBook/JLAAvengers, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with this stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). In JLA/Avengers, the heroes find a way to cross the universes that don't involve the two Brothers, but as they don't remember their previous team-ups and amalgamation, it would have been like the first time for them.
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). In JLA/Avengers, the heroes find a way to cross the universes that don't involve the two Brothers, but as they don't remember their previous team-ups and amalgamation, it would have been like the first time for them.
to:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is ComicBook/JLAAvengers, ''ComicBook/JLAAvengers'', which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with this stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). InJLA/Avengers, ''JLA/Avengers'', the heroes find a way to cross the universes that don't involve the two Brothers, but as they don't remember their previous team-ups and amalgamation, it would have been like the first time for them.
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). In
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Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
* Having read and re-read the Marvel vs DC mini series, I am still confused as to which brother is which... both brothers are seen with characacters from both universes but I just want clarification. Red or blue, who is who?
to:
* Having read and re-read the Marvel vs DC mini series, I am still confused as to which brother is which... both brothers are seen with characacters from both universes but I just want clarification. Red or blue, who is who?who?
** I'm presuming Marvel is red and DC is blue going by the logos of their recent productions.
** I'm presuming Marvel is red and DC is blue going by the logos of their recent productions.
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** Anthropomorphic Personification. The moe one is a specific type of anthropomorphism where the brothers don't fit (they are too muscular to be considered Moes)
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** Anthropomorphic Personification. The moe one is a specific type of anthropomorphism where the brothers don't fit (they are too muscular to be considered Moes)Moes)
*Having read and re-read the Marvel vs DC mini series, I am still confused as to which brother is which... both brothers are seen with characacters from both universes but I just want clarification. Red or blue, who is who?
*Having read and re-read the Marvel vs DC mini series, I am still confused as to which brother is which... both brothers are seen with characacters from both universes but I just want clarification. Red or blue, who is who?
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Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is {{JLA-Avengers}}, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with this stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
to:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is {{JLA-Avengers}}, ComicBook/JLAAvengers, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with this stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
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* I have one doubt; if the "Brothers" are the personifications of the Marvel and DC universe in Amalgam Universe then what will they be classified? As MoeAnthropomorphism or AnthropomorphicPersonification?
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* I have one doubt; if the "Brothers" are the personifications of the Marvel and DC universe in Amalgam Universe then what will they be classified? As MoeAnthropomorphism or AnthropomorphicPersonification?AnthropomorphicPersonification?
** Anthropomorphic Personification. The moe one is a specific type of anthropomorphism where the brothers don't fit (they are too muscular to be considered Moes)
** Anthropomorphic Personification. The moe one is a specific type of anthropomorphism where the brothers don't fit (they are too muscular to be considered Moes)
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Changed line(s) 3,4 (click to see context) from:
* I have one doubt if the "Brothers" are the personifications of the Marvel and DC universe in Amalgam Universe then what will they be classified as MoeAnthropomorphism or AnthropomorphicPersonification
to:
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Changed line(s) 2 (click to see context) from:
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). In JLA/Avengers, the heroes find a way to cross the universes that don't involve the two Brothers, but as they don't remember their previous team-ups and amalgamation, it would have been like the first time for them.
to:
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). In JLA/Avengers, the heroes find a way to cross the universes that don't involve the two Brothers, but as they don't remember their previous team-ups and amalgamation, it would have been like the first time for them.them.
* I have one doubt if the "Brothers" are the personifications of the Marvel and DC universe in Amalgam Universe then what will they be classified as MoeAnthropomorphism or AnthropomorphicPersonification
* I have one doubt if the "Brothers" are the personifications of the Marvel and DC universe in Amalgam Universe then what will they be classified as MoeAnthropomorphism or AnthropomorphicPersonification
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Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is {{JLA-Avengers}}, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with this stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
to:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is {{JLA-Avengers}}, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with this stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?explanation?
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). In JLA/Avengers, the heroes find a way to cross the universes that don't involve the two Brothers, but as they don't remember their previous team-ups and amalgamation, it would have been like the first time for them.
** The second mini-series follow-up, ''Unlimited Access'' might hold some clues here, as it implies that the heroes from both worlds tend to forget about the other world after some time (as such, Wonder Woman doesn't know who Access is, despite having met him in the previous mini-series, ''All-Access''). In JLA/Avengers, the heroes find a way to cross the universes that don't involve the two Brothers, but as they don't remember their previous team-ups and amalgamation, it would have been like the first time for them.
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Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is JLAAvengers, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with that stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
to:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is JLAAvengers, {{JLA-Avengers}}, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with that this stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
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Added DiffLines:
* I heard that Amalgam-related events were supposedly canon for both Marvel and DC (though for obvious reasons [[ExiledFromContinuity they could never mention them in their personal comics]]). And there is JLAAvengers, which is also supposedly canon for both of them, but the two things aren't canon to each other. I understand the real reason is most likely that Kurt Busiek didn't want to deal with that stuff, but I wonder, if there exists an in-universe explanation?
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headscratchers is not to complaining
Deleted line(s) 1,12 (click to see context) :
* Am I the only one pissed off by that presumptuous comment in the main page? If you really want comic book fans frothing at the mouth, ask them whether Batman beating Captain America makes any sense. I certainly wouldn't be frothing because it's not hard to believe. Batman and Captain America have BOTH achieved the peak of physical ability for humans. Batman trained to achieve this, Captain America cheated. That somehow means Batman ''has'' to lose to him? WTF. Plus Batman was in his element, darkness. I would be more upset if he lost while fighting Cap in the dark.
** The whole problem with Marvel vs DC was they had the fans vote for the winners and wrote around it.
** I haven't seen the quote you're referring to (it seems to have been removed) but if I had to guess I'd say it's probably due to a widespread misconception about what Captain America really is. People forget that he isn't really superhuman. As you say, his body has just been elevated to the peak of human physical potential. So really, he's probably not much stronger than the average Olympic-level athlete. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's hardly godlike power. Batman is fully capable of beating him in a stand-up fight, with or without the aid of darkness.
*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? And not even "Batman dodged." He just missed. ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.
**** He didn't "just miss", he was hit by water gushing out of the pipe. The water combined with the batarang pinned him for a second, resulting in as win. That was one of the sillier parts of the series. Many outcomes were determined by pins and you only needed to be pinned for a second or two.
***** I think the reason why this was done this way was because the writers recognized that these character really are just that well matched. In another DC/Marvel gigantic crossover (can't remember what it was called now, but it involved Galactus) as in this one, they BOTH say that there could never be a clear winner. Bats had to win because the fans voted that way, but he only wins with a technicality to keep them essentially equals, which is what they are.
*** It's a law of all universes: [[MemeticBadass Batman. Always. Wins.]]
**** Especially when the outcome is determined by fan vote.
** At least it wasn't as ridiculous as {{Wolverine}} versus {{Lobo}}. The problem with this fight is that it was they are two different genres- Lobo is basically a joke character who was made to ridicule how out of control Wolverine's characterization had gotten. Sadly, [[PopularityPower since it was by public vote]], [[WolverinePublicity Wolverine would beat pretty much anyone no matter the power discrepancy]]: including Superman, Batman, Yoda, or Jesus.
** There's a great Captain America/Batman crossover set on the 30s, in which they seem roughly on par, fighting as Steve Rogers as Bruce Wayne, both of them thinking that the other one is in fact a Nazi spy. Batman admited that Cap has a little bit of advantage over him, and then he smiles and understands who is Rogers; the only one person that he can conceive surpassing him. So that's kinda canon. Also, both of them recognize while they're fighting that his foe uses aikido and Okinawa-style karate. Captain America "cheated" his way to the physical and mental excellence, and then worked out a lot. I'm ok with Batman winning the brawl, but not with thinking "absolutely obvious result of the fight".
** A common complaint I've heard is the idea that, in order for Batman and Captain America to be portrayed as equals, Cap ''has'' to be a better hand-to-hand fighter, because Batman is very obviously much smarter than Cap, not to mention richer, stealthier, and more talented in general. For Batman to be as strong, as fast, as tough, and as good a fighter as Cap ''and'' be much better at a lot of things than Cap while Cap isn't potrayed as being better than Batman at ''anything'' (or at anything useful at least - being a better artist or "more inspirational to others" doesn't count) is essentially saying Batman is better than Cap. Think of it as building characters using [[PointBuildSystem points]]: every point Batman put into genius-level intelligence; detective and infiltration skills; knowledge of science, engineering, escapology and criminology; wealth, vehicles, connections and headquarters; and the gear he carries above and beyond the value of Cap's shield is a point Cap put into strength, endurance, and combat skill above and beyond what Batman spent in those atrributes.
*** A common extension of that train of thought is that, while Cap should have an edge upon their first meeting and almost always win a completely fair fist fight that neither was expecting, Batman should have an edge on all subsequent meetings and always win if he knows the fight is coming and can work up a ways to make it ''not'' a completely fair fist fight.
** The whole problem with Marvel vs DC was they had the fans vote for the winners and wrote around it.
** I haven't seen the quote you're referring to (it seems to have been removed) but if I had to guess I'd say it's probably due to a widespread misconception about what Captain America really is. People forget that he isn't really superhuman. As you say, his body has just been elevated to the peak of human physical potential. So really, he's probably not much stronger than the average Olympic-level athlete. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's hardly godlike power. Batman is fully capable of beating him in a stand-up fight, with or without the aid of darkness.
*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? And not even "Batman dodged." He just missed. ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.
**** He didn't "just miss", he was hit by water gushing out of the pipe. The water combined with the batarang pinned him for a second, resulting in as win. That was one of the sillier parts of the series. Many outcomes were determined by pins and you only needed to be pinned for a second or two.
***** I think the reason why this was done this way was because the writers recognized that these character really are just that well matched. In another DC/Marvel gigantic crossover (can't remember what it was called now, but it involved Galactus) as in this one, they BOTH say that there could never be a clear winner. Bats had to win because the fans voted that way, but he only wins with a technicality to keep them essentially equals, which is what they are.
*** It's a law of all universes: [[MemeticBadass Batman. Always. Wins.]]
**** Especially when the outcome is determined by fan vote.
** At least it wasn't as ridiculous as {{Wolverine}} versus {{Lobo}}. The problem with this fight is that it was they are two different genres- Lobo is basically a joke character who was made to ridicule how out of control Wolverine's characterization had gotten. Sadly, [[PopularityPower since it was by public vote]], [[WolverinePublicity Wolverine would beat pretty much anyone no matter the power discrepancy]]: including Superman, Batman, Yoda, or Jesus.
** There's a great Captain America/Batman crossover set on the 30s, in which they seem roughly on par, fighting as Steve Rogers as Bruce Wayne, both of them thinking that the other one is in fact a Nazi spy. Batman admited that Cap has a little bit of advantage over him, and then he smiles and understands who is Rogers; the only one person that he can conceive surpassing him. So that's kinda canon. Also, both of them recognize while they're fighting that his foe uses aikido and Okinawa-style karate. Captain America "cheated" his way to the physical and mental excellence, and then worked out a lot. I'm ok with Batman winning the brawl, but not with thinking "absolutely obvious result of the fight".
** A common complaint I've heard is the idea that, in order for Batman and Captain America to be portrayed as equals, Cap ''has'' to be a better hand-to-hand fighter, because Batman is very obviously much smarter than Cap, not to mention richer, stealthier, and more talented in general. For Batman to be as strong, as fast, as tough, and as good a fighter as Cap ''and'' be much better at a lot of things than Cap while Cap isn't potrayed as being better than Batman at ''anything'' (or at anything useful at least - being a better artist or "more inspirational to others" doesn't count) is essentially saying Batman is better than Cap. Think of it as building characters using [[PointBuildSystem points]]: every point Batman put into genius-level intelligence; detective and infiltration skills; knowledge of science, engineering, escapology and criminology; wealth, vehicles, connections and headquarters; and the gear he carries above and beyond the value of Cap's shield is a point Cap put into strength, endurance, and combat skill above and beyond what Batman spent in those atrributes.
*** A common extension of that train of thought is that, while Cap should have an edge upon their first meeting and almost always win a completely fair fist fight that neither was expecting, Batman should have an edge on all subsequent meetings and always win if he knows the fight is coming and can work up a ways to make it ''not'' a completely fair fist fight.
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** The whole problem with Marvel vs DC was they had the fans vote for the winners and wrote around it.
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** A common complaint I've heard is the idea that, in order for Batman and Captain America to be portrayed as equals, Cap ''has'' to be a better hand-to-hand fighter, because Batman is very obviously much smarter than Cap, not to mention richer, stealthier, and more talented in general. For Batman to be as strong, as fast, as tough, and as good a fighter as Cap ''and'' be much better at a lot of things than Cap while Cap isn't potrayed as being better than Batman at ''anything'' (or at anything useful at least - being a better artist or "more inspirational to others" doesn't count) is essentially saying Batman is better than Cap. Think of it as building characters using [[PointBuildSystem points]]: every point Batman put into genius-level intelligence; detective and infiltration skills; knowledge of science, engineering, escapology and criminology; wealth, vehicles, connections and headquarters; and the gear he carries above and beyond the value of Cap's shield is a point Cap put into strength, endurance, and combat skill above and beyond what Batman spent in those atrributes.
to:
** A common complaint I've heard is the idea that, in order for Batman and Captain America to be portrayed as equals, Cap ''has'' to be a better hand-to-hand fighter, because Batman is very obviously much smarter than Cap, not to mention richer, stealthier, and more talented in general. For Batman to be as strong, as fast, as tough, and as good a fighter as Cap ''and'' be much better at a lot of things than Cap while Cap isn't potrayed as being better than Batman at ''anything'' (or at anything useful at least - being a better artist or "more inspirational to others" doesn't count) is essentially saying Batman is better than Cap. Think of it as building characters using [[PointBuildSystem points]]: every point Batman put into genius-level intelligence; detective and infiltration skills; knowledge of science, engineering, escapology and criminology; wealth, vehicles, connections and headquarters; and the gear he carries above and beyond the value of Cap's shield is a point Cap put into strength, endurance, and combat skill above and beyond what Batman spent in those atrributes.atrributes.
*** A common extension of that train of thought is that, while Cap should have an edge upon their first meeting and almost always win a completely fair fist fight that neither was expecting, Batman should have an edge on all subsequent meetings and always win if he knows the fight is coming and can work up a ways to make it ''not'' a completely fair fist fight.
*** A common extension of that train of thought is that, while Cap should have an edge upon their first meeting and almost always win a completely fair fist fight that neither was expecting, Batman should have an edge on all subsequent meetings and always win if he knows the fight is coming and can work up a ways to make it ''not'' a completely fair fist fight.
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Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** There's a great Captain America/Batman crossover set on the 30s, in which they seem roughly on par, fighting as Steve Rogers as Bruce Wayne, both of them thinking that the other one is in fact a Nazi spy. Batman admited that Cap has a little bit of advantage over him, and then he smiles and understands who is Rogers; the only one person that he can conceive surpassing him. So that's kinda canon. Also, both of them recognize while they're fighting that his foe uses aikido and Okinawa-style karate. Captain America "cheated" his way to the physical and mental excellence, and then worked out a lot. I'm ok with Batman winning the brawl, but not with thinking "absolutely obvious result of the fight".
to:
** There's a great Captain America/Batman crossover set on the 30s, in which they seem roughly on par, fighting as Steve Rogers as Bruce Wayne, both of them thinking that the other one is in fact a Nazi spy. Batman admited that Cap has a little bit of advantage over him, and then he smiles and understands who is Rogers; the only one person that he can conceive surpassing him. So that's kinda canon. Also, both of them recognize while they're fighting that his foe uses aikido and Okinawa-style karate. Captain America "cheated" his way to the physical and mental excellence, and then worked out a lot. I'm ok with Batman winning the brawl, but not with thinking "absolutely obvious result of the fight".fight".
** A common complaint I've heard is the idea that, in order for Batman and Captain America to be portrayed as equals, Cap ''has'' to be a better hand-to-hand fighter, because Batman is very obviously much smarter than Cap, not to mention richer, stealthier, and more talented in general. For Batman to be as strong, as fast, as tough, and as good a fighter as Cap ''and'' be much better at a lot of things than Cap while Cap isn't potrayed as being better than Batman at ''anything'' (or at anything useful at least - being a better artist or "more inspirational to others" doesn't count) is essentially saying Batman is better than Cap. Think of it as building characters using [[PointBuildSystem points]]: every point Batman put into genius-level intelligence; detective and infiltration skills; knowledge of science, engineering, escapology and criminology; wealth, vehicles, connections and headquarters; and the gear he carries above and beyond the value of Cap's shield is a point Cap put into strength, endurance, and combat skill above and beyond what Batman spent in those atrributes.
** A common complaint I've heard is the idea that, in order for Batman and Captain America to be portrayed as equals, Cap ''has'' to be a better hand-to-hand fighter, because Batman is very obviously much smarter than Cap, not to mention richer, stealthier, and more talented in general. For Batman to be as strong, as fast, as tough, and as good a fighter as Cap ''and'' be much better at a lot of things than Cap while Cap isn't potrayed as being better than Batman at ''anything'' (or at anything useful at least - being a better artist or "more inspirational to others" doesn't count) is essentially saying Batman is better than Cap. Think of it as building characters using [[PointBuildSystem points]]: every point Batman put into genius-level intelligence; detective and infiltration skills; knowledge of science, engineering, escapology and criminology; wealth, vehicles, connections and headquarters; and the gear he carries above and beyond the value of Cap's shield is a point Cap put into strength, endurance, and combat skill above and beyond what Batman spent in those atrributes.
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***** I think the reason why this was done this way was because the writers recognized that these character really are just that well matched. In another DC/Marvel gigantic crossover (can't remember what it was called now, but it involved Galactus) as in this one, they BOTH say that there could never be a clear winner. Bats had to win because the fans voted that way, but he only wins with a technicality to keep them essentially equals, which is what they are.
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** At least it wasn't as ridiculous as {{Wolverine}} versus {{Lobo}}. The problem with this fight is that it was they are two different genres- Lobo is basically a joke character who was made to ridicule how out of control Wolverine's characterization had gotten. Sadly, [[PopularityPower since it was by public vote]], [[WolverinePublicity Wolverine would beat pretty much anyone no matter the power discrepancy]]: including Superman, Batman, Yoda, or Jesus.
to:
** At least it wasn't as ridiculous as {{Wolverine}} versus {{Lobo}}. The problem with this fight is that it was they are two different genres- Lobo is basically a joke character who was made to ridicule how out of control Wolverine's characterization had gotten. Sadly, [[PopularityPower since it was by public vote]], [[WolverinePublicity Wolverine would beat pretty much anyone no matter the power discrepancy]]: including Superman, Batman, Yoda, or Jesus.Jesus.
** There's a great Captain America/Batman crossover set on the 30s, in which they seem roughly on par, fighting as Steve Rogers as Bruce Wayne, both of them thinking that the other one is in fact a Nazi spy. Batman admited that Cap has a little bit of advantage over him, and then he smiles and understands who is Rogers; the only one person that he can conceive surpassing him. So that's kinda canon. Also, both of them recognize while they're fighting that his foe uses aikido and Okinawa-style karate. Captain America "cheated" his way to the physical and mental excellence, and then worked out a lot. I'm ok with Batman winning the brawl, but not with thinking "absolutely obvious result of the fight".
** There's a great Captain America/Batman crossover set on the 30s, in which they seem roughly on par, fighting as Steve Rogers as Bruce Wayne, both of them thinking that the other one is in fact a Nazi spy. Batman admited that Cap has a little bit of advantage over him, and then he smiles and understands who is Rogers; the only one person that he can conceive surpassing him. So that's kinda canon. Also, both of them recognize while they're fighting that his foe uses aikido and Okinawa-style karate. Captain America "cheated" his way to the physical and mental excellence, and then worked out a lot. I'm ok with Batman winning the brawl, but not with thinking "absolutely obvious result of the fight".
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**** Especially when the outcome is determined by fan vote.
to:
**** Especially when the outcome is determined by fan vote.vote.
** At least it wasn't as ridiculous as {{Wolverine}} versus {{Lobo}}. The problem with this fight is that it was they are two different genres- Lobo is basically a joke character who was made to ridicule how out of control Wolverine's characterization had gotten. Sadly, [[PopularityPower since it was by public vote]], [[WolverinePublicity Wolverine would beat pretty much anyone no matter the power discrepancy]]: including Superman, Batman, Yoda, or Jesus.
** At least it wasn't as ridiculous as {{Wolverine}} versus {{Lobo}}. The problem with this fight is that it was they are two different genres- Lobo is basically a joke character who was made to ridicule how out of control Wolverine's characterization had gotten. Sadly, [[PopularityPower since it was by public vote]], [[WolverinePublicity Wolverine would beat pretty much anyone no matter the power discrepancy]]: including Superman, Batman, Yoda, or Jesus.
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*** It's a law of all universes: [[MemeticBadass Batman. Always. Wins.]]
to:
*** It's a law of all universes: [[MemeticBadass Batman. Always. Wins.]]]]
**** Especially when the outcome is determined by fan vote.
**** Especially when the outcome is determined by fan vote.
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**** He didn't "just miss", he was hit by water gushing out of the pipe. The water combined with the batarang pinned him for a second, resulting in as win. That was one of the sillier parts of the series. Many outcomes were determined by pins and you only needed to be pinned for a second or two.
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*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? And not even "Batman dodged." He just missed. ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.
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*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? And not even "Batman dodged." He just missed. ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.him.
*** It's a law of all universes: [[MemeticBadass Batman. Always. Wins.]]
*** It's a law of all universes: [[MemeticBadass Batman. Always. Wins.]]
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*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.
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*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? batarang? And not even "Batman dodged." He just missed. ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.
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** I haven't seen the quote you're referring to (it seems to have been removed) but if I had to guess I'd say it's probably due to a widespread misconception about what Captain America really is. People forget that he isn't really superhuman. As you say, his body has just been elevated to the peak of human physical potential. So really, he's probably not much stronger than the average Olympic-level athlete. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's hardly godlike power. Batman is fully capable of beating him in a stand-up fight, with or without the aid of darkness.
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** I haven't seen the quote you're referring to (it seems to have been removed) but if I had to guess I'd say it's probably due to a widespread misconception about what Captain America really is. People forget that he isn't really superhuman. As you say, his body has just been elevated to the peak of human physical potential. So really, he's probably not much stronger than the average Olympic-level athlete. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's hardly godlike power. Batman is fully capable of beating him in a stand-up fight, with or without the aid of darkness.darkness.
*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.
*** I think you'll find that most fans who hated Captain America losing AND actually read the comic hated ''the way'' Cap lost[[hottip:*:He missed a shield toss and got nailed with a batarang? ''Really?'']], rather than the fact that Bats beat him.
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* Am I the only one pissed off by that presumptuous comment in the main page? If you really want comic book fans frothing at the mouth, ask them whether Batman beating Captain America makes any sense. I certainly wouldn't be frothing because it's not hard to believe. Batman and Captain America have BOTH achieved the peak of physical ability for humans. Batman trained to achieve this, Captain America cheated. That somehow means Batman ''has'' to lose to him? WTF. Plus Batman was in his element, darkness. I would be more upset if he lost while fighting Cap in the dark.
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* Am I the only one pissed off by that presumptuous comment in the main page? If you really want comic book fans frothing at the mouth, ask them whether Batman beating Captain America makes any sense. I certainly wouldn't be frothing because it's not hard to believe. Batman and Captain America have BOTH achieved the peak of physical ability for humans. Batman trained to achieve this, Captain America cheated. That somehow means Batman ''has'' to lose to him? WTF. Plus Batman was in his element, darkness. I would be more upset if he lost while fighting Cap in the dark.dark.
** I haven't seen the quote you're referring to (it seems to have been removed) but if I had to guess I'd say it's probably due to a widespread misconception about what Captain America really is. People forget that he isn't really superhuman. As you say, his body has just been elevated to the peak of human physical potential. So really, he's probably not much stronger than the average Olympic-level athlete. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's hardly godlike power. Batman is fully capable of beating him in a stand-up fight, with or without the aid of darkness.
** I haven't seen the quote you're referring to (it seems to have been removed) but if I had to guess I'd say it's probably due to a widespread misconception about what Captain America really is. People forget that he isn't really superhuman. As you say, his body has just been elevated to the peak of human physical potential. So really, he's probably not much stronger than the average Olympic-level athlete. That's nothing to sneeze at, but it's hardly godlike power. Batman is fully capable of beating him in a stand-up fight, with or without the aid of darkness.
