Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 31 (click to see context) from:
* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Cyril is potrayed in the movie as instigating the murder of Hypatia for being a woman, a scientist, a supposed witch, and a pagan - along with generally being depicted as TheFundamentalist. In history, he didn't order Hypatia to be killed, much less for any of the reasons he has in the film. In the film Cyril's rivalry with Orestes is depicted as being over Hypatia's popularity and influence over Orestes, but in history the rivalry was unrelated to Hypatia, and her death only happened because people (wrongly) assumed ''Orestes'' influenced ''her''. To a desgree, this villain upgrade depiction also applies to the Christians of Alexandria in general.
to:
* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Cyril is potrayed in the movie as instigating the murder of Hypatia for being a woman, a female scientist, a supposed witch, and a pagan - along with generally being depicted as TheFundamentalist. In history, he didn't order Hypatia to be killed, much less for any of the reasons he has in the film. In the film Cyril's rivalry with Orestes is depicted as being over Hypatia's popularity and influence over Orestes, but in history the rivalry was unrelated to Hypatia, and her death only happened because people (wrongly) assumed ''Orestes'' influenced ''her''. To a desgree, this villain upgrade depiction also applies to the Christians of Alexandria in general.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* HistoricalVillainUpgrade: Cyril is potrayed in the movie as instigating the murder of Hypatia for being a woman, a scientist, a supposed witch, and a pagan - along with generally being depicted as TheFundamentalist. In history, he didn't order Hypatia to be killed, much less for any of the reasons he has in the film. In the film Cyril's rivalry with Orestes is depicted as being over Hypatia's popularity and influence over Orestes, but in history the rivalry was unrelated to Hypatia, and her death only happened because people (wrongly) assumed ''Orestes'' influenced ''her''. To a desgree, this villain upgrade depiction also applies to the Christians of Alexandria in general.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 43 (click to see context) from:
** Subverted. The Pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack on those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they also seem to be friendly or at least indifferent to Alexandria's Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to Jews. However, once the provocation happens, the pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other.
to:
** Subverted. The Pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack on those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they also seem to be friendly or at least indifferent to Alexandria's Jew Jewish population, while the Christians are openly hostile to Jews. However, once the provocation happens, the pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other.
Changed line(s) 48 (click to see context) from:
* RaceLift: The ethnic Jews are all portrayed by white actors. Although Christianity encouraged conversion and gained a number of followers from all religions, Jews at this point were still a small ethnoreligious group from the Levant.
to:
* TheQueensLatin: Like many fictional works set in Ancient Rome, all of the characters have British accents.
* RaceLift: The ethnic Jews are all portrayed by white actors. Although Christianity encouraged conversion and gained a number of followers from all religions, Jews at this point were still a small ethnoreligious group from theLevant.Levant that hadn't spread out to Europe yet.
* RaceLift: The ethnic Jews are all portrayed by white actors. Although Christianity encouraged conversion and gained a number of followers from all religions, Jews at this point were still a small ethnoreligious group from the
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 47 (click to see context) from:
* PrettyBoy: Bishop Synesius of Cyrene, played by the British actor Rupert Evans.
to:
* PrettyBoy: Bishop Synesius of Cyrene, played by the British actor Rupert Evans.Creator/RupertEvans.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 8 (click to see context) :
* AdaptationalVillainy: In the movie, Synesius turns against Hypatia and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian. The real Synesius defended her until his death, which incidentally was a year before Hypatia's.
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given that their portrayal in this film is that of agitators and brawlers, this is definitely not casual.
to:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them look weirdly similar to like gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given that their portrayal in this film is that of agitators and brawlers, this is definitely not casual.
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* ArtisticLicenseHistory: While generally rather faithful, the film contains a handful of deviations in political motivations and personal mindsets of certain characters, which are explained in [[ArtisticLicenseHistory/{{Agora}} its own article]].
to:
* ArtisticLicenseHistory: While generally rather faithful, the The film contains a handful of several deviations in political motivations and personal mindsets of certain characters, which are explained in [[ArtisticLicenseHistory/{{Agora}} its own article]].
Changed line(s) 23 (click to see context) from:
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if, paradoxically, she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and not just that, he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from ''sexually assaulting her'' when next they meet]].
to:
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if, paradoxically, paradoxically enough, she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to knock Theon out and participate in the sacking of the library, and not just that, he [[spoiler: is [[spoiler:is only barely able to restrain himself from ''sexually assaulting her'' when next they meet]].
Added DiffLines:
* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: The Jews in the film only stone the Christians in rightful retaliation for a similarly violent attack. In historical chronicles, while the Jews weren't exactly at peace with the Christians, there was no Christian ambush. Instead, the Jews attacked them out of annoyance at Cyril's speeches against them, something that was seen as a DisproportionateRetribution and only fueled the Christian's public stance.
* HistoricalVillainDowngrade: In the movie, Synesius turns against Hypatia and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian. The real Synesius defended her until his death, which incidentally was a year before Hypatia's.
* HistoricalVillainDowngrade: In the movie, Synesius turns against Hypatia and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian. The real Synesius defended her until his death, which incidentally was a year before Hypatia's.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 1,5 (click to see context) from:
[[quoteright:306:https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Agoraposter09.jpg]]
[[caption-width-right:306:Studying what would be lost for centuries]]
''Ágora'' (written and directed by your favorite LGBT Spanish director Alejandro Amenábar) is a movie portraying the life of the female philosopher Hypatia (played by Creator/RachelWeisz), from the destruction of Alexandria to her death at the hands of fanatical Christians. It takes a number of liberties with the history it's trying to depict, so take it with a grain of salt.
[[caption-width-right:306:Studying what would be lost for centuries]]
''Ágora'' (written and directed by your favorite LGBT Spanish director Alejandro Amenábar) is a movie portraying the life of the female philosopher Hypatia (played by Creator/RachelWeisz), from the destruction of Alexandria to her death at the hands of fanatical Christians. It takes a number of liberties with the history it's trying to depict, so take it with a grain of salt.
to:
''Ágora'' (written and directed by your favorite LGBT Spanish director Alejandro Amenábar) is
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Whether a character in a work is a villain or not should be objectively determinable. A villain isn't just a villain "from another character's perspective".
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* AdaptationalVillainy: From Hypatia's perspective, Synesius. This version of him turns against her and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian, while in real life, he defended her until the end of his days (he died a year before her, by the way).
to:
* AdaptationalVillainy: From Hypatia's perspective, Synesius. This version of him In the movie, Synesius turns against her Hypatia and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian, while in Christian. The real life, he Synesius defended her until the end of his days (he died death, which incidentally was a year before her, by the way).Hypatia's.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
It's Adaptaional Villainy not "Adaptational Villain".
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* AdaptationalVillain: From Hypatia's perspective, Synesius. This version of him turns against her and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian, while in real life, he defended her until the end of his days (he died a year before her, by the way).
to:
* AdaptationalVillain: AdaptationalVillainy: From Hypatia's perspective, Synesius. This version of him turns against her and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian, while in real life, he defended her until the end of his days (he died a year before her, by the way).
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* AdaptationalVillain: From Hypatia's perspective, Synesius. This version of him turns against her and won't support her unless she becomes a Christian, while in real life, he defended her until the end of his days (he died a year before her, by the way).
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith plays with the idea]]. The Pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of the film is a tragic victory of the latter's mindset. ''However'', it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass Paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the Pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. The message of the film, therefore, seems to be that while anti-intellectualism is bad, these particular intellectuals actually [[LaserGuidedKarma brought it upon themselves]] for completely unrelated reasons.
to:
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith plays with the idea]]. The Pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of the film is a tragic victory of the latter's mindset. ''However'', it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass Paganism in the first place is because that they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the Pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. The message of the film, therefore, seems to be that while anti-intellectualism is bad, these particular intellectuals actually [[LaserGuidedKarma brought it upon themselves]] for completely unrelated reasons.
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic Pagans.
to:
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic Pagans. Ironically, among these Pagans there are Platonists, for who God was one too.
Added DiffLines:
* LighterAndSofter: The film tones down many real life elements that might be too gruesome, as the brutality of the religious conflict and Hypatia's own death.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 11,17 (click to see context) from:
* ArtisticLicenseHistory:
** In real life, Hypatia was a Neo-Platonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school, but she declares herself an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clearer). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** The real Serapeum was certainly considered the spiritual sucessor to the burned Great Library, and it is possible, if not probable, that it carried rescued books from the latter at some point, but [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Serapeum contemporary sources]] suggest the building's library was considered a thing of the past by the time of its destruction. Whether this means its collection of books had been moved or that it never was located here to begin with remains unknown.
** In the film, the battle between Pagans and Christians that ended with the destruction of the Serapeum is caused by some Parabalani trying to burn a Pagan priest alive. In real life, this kind of incidents did happen at the time, but the cause of the battle was another: it started when because some Christian workers found Pagan paraphernalia in an unused temple and started parading mockingly through the city with it, infuriating all the Pagan citizens who witnessed the joke. Some chronicles also feature details that might or might not be propaganda, as Christian writers claimed the philosophers were torturing Christian prisoners inside the besieged Serapeum, while Pagan writers claim the Christians started the hostilities and later tried to make all the battle's corpses pass as murdered Christians.
** The film gives the impression that, after the Christian takeover, Hypatia was left as an obscure erudite only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was a very popular and respected figure in the city among both Christians and non-Christians alike, and most of them were horrified by the news of her murder. Also, while while her murderers were Christians and almost certainly operated in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, most evidences suggest that she was killed by political reasons rather than religious disputes, namely the rumor that she was manipulating Orestes into opposing Cyril (although, obviously, anti-pagan overtones behind the murder cannot be discarded at all).
** In real life, Hypatia's rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. The last point could count another departure, as the real Hypatia might have been married (presumably in a celibate way) to another philosopher named Isidorus.
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first century AD, when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD. This strikes as odd considering how much care was put in recreating all the rest of the setting.
** In real life, Hypatia was a Neo-Platonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school, but she declares herself an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clearer). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** The real Serapeum was certainly considered the spiritual sucessor to the burned Great Library, and it is possible, if not probable, that it carried rescued books from the latter at some point, but [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Serapeum contemporary sources]] suggest the building's library was considered a thing of the past by the time of its destruction. Whether this means its collection of books had been moved or that it never was located here to begin with remains unknown.
** In the film, the battle between Pagans and Christians that ended with the destruction of the Serapeum is caused by some Parabalani trying to burn a Pagan priest alive. In real life, this kind of incidents did happen at the time, but the cause of the battle was another: it started when because some Christian workers found Pagan paraphernalia in an unused temple and started parading mockingly through the city with it, infuriating all the Pagan citizens who witnessed the joke. Some chronicles also feature details that might or might not be propaganda, as Christian writers claimed the philosophers were torturing Christian prisoners inside the besieged Serapeum, while Pagan writers claim the Christians started the hostilities and later tried to make all the battle's corpses pass as murdered Christians.
** The film gives the impression that, after the Christian takeover, Hypatia was left as an obscure erudite only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was a very popular and respected figure in the city among both Christians and non-Christians alike, and most of them were horrified by the news of her murder. Also, while while her murderers were Christians and almost certainly operated in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, most evidences suggest that she was killed by political reasons rather than religious disputes, namely the rumor that she was manipulating Orestes into opposing Cyril (although, obviously, anti-pagan overtones behind the murder cannot be discarded at all).
** In real life, Hypatia's rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. The last point could count another departure, as the real Hypatia might have been married (presumably in a celibate way) to another philosopher named Isidorus.
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first century AD, when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD. This strikes as odd considering how much care was put in recreating all the rest of the setting.
to:
* ArtisticLicenseHistory:
** In real life, Hypatia was a Neo-Platonist. InArtisticLicenseHistory: While generally rather faithful, the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school, but she declares herself an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clearer). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** The real Serapeum was certainly considered the spiritual sucessor to the burned Great Library, and it is possible, if not probable, that it carried rescued books from the latter at some point, but [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Serapeum contemporary sources]] suggest the building's library was considered a thing of the past by the time of its destruction. Whether this means its collection of books had been moved or that it never was located here to begin with remains unknown.
** In the film, the battle between Pagans and Christians that ended with the destruction of the Serapeum is caused by some Parabalani trying to burn a Pagan priest alive. In real life, this kind of incidents did happen at the time, but the cause of the battle was another: it started when because some Christian workers found Pagan paraphernalia in an unused temple and started parading mockingly through the city with it, infuriating all the Pagan citizens who witnessed the joke. Some chronicles also feature details that might or might not be propaganda, as Christian writers claimed the philosophers were torturing Christian prisoners inside the besieged Serapeum, while Pagan writers claim the Christians started the hostilities and later tried to make all the battle's corpses pass as murdered Christians.
** Thefilm gives the impression that, after the Christian takeover, Hypatia was left as an obscure erudite only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was contains a very popular and respected figure handful of deviations in the city among both Christians and non-Christians alike, and most of them were horrified by the news of her murder. Also, while while her murderers were Christians and almost certainly operated in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, most evidences suggest that she was killed by political reasons rather than religious disputes, namely the rumor that she was manipulating Orestes into opposing Cyril (although, obviously, anti-pagan overtones behind the murder cannot be discarded at all).
** In real life, Hypatia's rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification,motivations and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic personal mindsets of love. The last point could count another departure, as the real Hypatia might have been married (presumably certain characters, which are explained in a celibate way) to another philosopher named Isidorus.
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first century AD, when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD. This strikes as odd considering how much care was put in recreating all the rest of the setting.[[ArtisticLicenseHistory/{{Agora}} its own article]].
** In real life, Hypatia was a Neo-Platonist. In
** The real Serapeum was certainly considered the spiritual sucessor to the burned Great Library, and it is possible, if not probable, that it carried rescued books from the latter at some point, but [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Serapeum contemporary sources]] suggest the building's library was considered a thing of the past by the time of its destruction. Whether this means its collection of books had been moved or that it never was located here to begin with remains unknown.
** In the film, the battle between Pagans and Christians that ended with the destruction of the Serapeum is caused by some Parabalani trying to burn a Pagan priest alive. In real life, this kind of incidents did happen at the time, but the cause of the battle was another: it started when because some Christian workers found Pagan paraphernalia in an unused temple and started parading mockingly through the city with it, infuriating all the Pagan citizens who witnessed the joke. Some chronicles also feature details that might or might not be propaganda, as Christian writers claimed the philosophers were torturing Christian prisoners inside the besieged Serapeum, while Pagan writers claim the Christians started the hostilities and later tried to make all the battle's corpses pass as murdered Christians.
** The
** In real life, Hypatia's rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification,
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first century AD, when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD. This strikes as odd considering how much care was put in recreating all the rest of the setting.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given that their portrayal in this film is that of agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith plays with the idea]]. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of the film is a tragic victory of the latter's attitude. ''However'', it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. The message of the film, therefore, seems to be that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, these particular intellectuals actually [[LaserGuidedKarma brought it upon themselves]] for completely unrelated reasons.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith plays with the idea]]. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of the film is a tragic victory of the latter's attitude. ''However'', it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. The message of the film, therefore, seems to be that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, these particular intellectuals actually [[LaserGuidedKarma brought it upon themselves]] for completely unrelated reasons.
to:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given that their portrayal in this film is that of agitators and urban fighters, brawlers, this is definitely not casual.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith plays with the idea]]. Thepagans Pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of the film is a tragic victory of the latter's attitude. mindset. ''However'', it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism Paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans Pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. The message of the film, therefore, seems to be that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, bad, these particular intellectuals actually [[LaserGuidedKarma brought it upon themselves]] for completely unrelated reasons.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith plays with the idea]]. The
Changed line(s) 12,16 (click to see context) from:
** In RealLife, Hypatia was a Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clearer). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** While there was really a Serapeum that housed an academy, the notion that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 CE]]. Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia was only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was very popular and respected by Christians and non-Christians alike, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her murder. While her murderers were certainly Christians and probably in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, some chroniclers claim she was killed by entirely political reasons (namely, a rumor accusing her of manipulating Orestes in his enmity with Cyril) instead of religious disputes.
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate, and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. (That said, there is some modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting point.)
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first century AD when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD.
** While there was really a Serapeum that housed an academy, the notion that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 CE]]. Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia was only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was very popular and respected by Christians and non-Christians alike, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her murder. While her murderers were certainly Christians and probably in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, some chroniclers claim she was killed by entirely political reasons (namely, a rumor accusing her of manipulating Orestes in his enmity with Cyril) instead of religious disputes.
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate, and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. (That said, there is some modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting point.)
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first century AD when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD.
to:
** In RealLife, real life, Hypatia was a Neoplatonist. Neo-Platonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, school, but she declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clearer). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
**While there was really a The real Serapeum that housed an academy, was certainly considered the notion spiritual sucessor to the burned Great Library, and it is possible, if not probable, that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests latter at some point, but [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Serapeum contemporary sources]] suggest the collection building's library was considered a thing of the past by 378 CE]]. Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This time of its destruction. Whether this means its collection of books had been moved or that it never was located here to begin with remains unknown.
** In the film, the battle between Pagans and Christians that ended with the destruction of the Serapeum is caused by some Parabalani trying to burn a Pagan priest alive. In real life, this kind of incidents did happen at the time, but the cause of the battle was another: it started when because some Christian workers found Pagan paraphernalia in an unused temple and started parading mockingly through the city with it, infuriating all the Pagan citizens who witnessed the joke. Some chronicles also feature details that mighthave been added to or might not be propaganda, as Christian writers claimed the film in order to increase philosophers were torturing Christian prisoners inside the place's mystique.
besieged Serapeum, while Pagan writers claim the Christians started the hostilities and later tried to make all the battle's corpses pass as murdered Christians.
** The film gives the impression that, after thepagans disappeared from Alexandria, Christian takeover, Hypatia was left as an obscure erudite only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was a very popular and respected by figure in the city among both Christians and non-Christians alike, and pretty much everyone was most of them were horrified by the news of her murder. While Also, while while her murderers were certainly Christians and probably almost certainly operated in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, some chroniclers claim most evidences suggest that she was killed by entirely political reasons (namely, a rather than religious disputes, namely the rumor accusing her of that she was manipulating Orestes in his enmity with Cyril) instead of religious disputes.
into opposing Cyril (although, obviously, anti-pagan overtones behind the murder cannot be discarded at all).
**According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate, and her In real life, Hypatia's rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. (That said, there is some modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look The last point could count another departure, as the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting point.)
real Hypatia might have been married (presumably in a celibate way) to another philosopher named Isidorus.
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first centuryAD AD, when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD.AD. This strikes as odd considering how much care was put in recreating all the rest of the setting.
**
** In the film, the battle between Pagans and Christians that ended with the destruction of the Serapeum is caused by some Parabalani trying to burn a Pagan priest alive. In real life, this kind of incidents did happen at the time, but the cause of the battle was another: it started when because some Christian workers found Pagan paraphernalia in an unused temple and started parading mockingly through the city with it, infuriating all the Pagan citizens who witnessed the joke. Some chronicles also feature details that might
** The film gives the impression that, after the
**
** The Roman soldiers use equipment from the first century
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic pagans.
to:
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic pagans.Pagans.
Changed line(s) 24 (click to see context) from:
* DeliberateValuesDissonance: For all her rationalist outlooks, and although she tries to be nice to her slaves, Hypatia is perfectly fine with the institution of slavery and notably lists "people" and "slaves" as being two different categories of beings several times. This is a plot point; Davus is obviously quite intelligent and shares Hypatia's interest in science, but his knowledge that he never will be recognized as "equal" in a traditional, pagan society drives him into the arms of a radical Christian sect, the Parabolani, where he ''is'' regarded as equal despite his status.
to:
* DeliberateValuesDissonance: For all her rationalist outlooks, and although she tries to be nice to her slaves, Hypatia is perfectly fine with the institution of slavery and notably lists "people" and "slaves" as being two different categories of beings several times. This is a plot point; Davus is obviously quite intelligent and shares Hypatia's interest in science, but his knowledge that he never will be recognized as "equal" in a traditional, pagan traditional Pagan society drives him into the arms of a radical Christian sect, the Parabolani, where he ''is'' regarded as equal despite his status.
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
** The pagans try to organize a massacre of dozens of Christians in retaliation for the Parabalani's assault on a single priest. It is implied that this neither the first nor the only action the Christians had taken to harass the pagans, but it is still a fair bit of an overreaction.
to:
** The pagans Pagans try to organize a massacre of dozens of Christians in retaliation for the Parabalani's assault on a single priest. It is strongly implied that this was neither the first nor the only action the Christians had taken to harass the pagans, Pagans, but it is still a fair bit of an overreaction.
Changed line(s) 30 (click to see context) from:
* EvilVersusEvil: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, intransigent and bent on provocation and escalation.
to:
* EvilVersusEvil: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, Pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, intransigent and bent on provocation and escalation.
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* TheHeretic: Hypatia, after paganism became illegal. Considering she was a principled atheist ("You do not question what you believe; you cannot. I ''must''."), she was technically a heretic from the beginning.
to:
* TheHeretic: Hypatia, after paganism Paganism became illegal. Considering she was a principled atheist agnostic ("You do not question what you believe; you cannot. I ''must''."), she was technically a heretic from the beginning.
Changed line(s) 37 (click to see context) from:
%%* KnightTemplar: The parabolani.
to:
%%* KnightTemplar: The parabolani.Parabolani.
Changed line(s) 39 (click to see context) from:
* MercyKill: Davus asphyxiates Hypatia so she wouldn't have to suffer a much more painful death by stoning at the hands of the other parabolani.
to:
* MercyKill: Davus asphyxiates Hypatia so she wouldn't have to suffer a much more painful death by stoning at the hands of the other parabolani.Parabolani.
Changed line(s) 45,47 (click to see context) from:
** Downplayed. The pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against those in response to a public assault on a pagan priest. They also seem to be friendly or at least indifferent to Alexandria's Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to Jews. However, once the provocation happens, the pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other.
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis are strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christianity, which might have been deliberately written in to underline this trope.
* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: The whole reason Christians started slaughtering pagans and later Jews. Subverted because Christians are obviously as religious as the others are.
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis are strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christianity, which might have been deliberately written in to underline this trope.
* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: The whole reason Christians started slaughtering pagans and later Jews. Subverted because Christians are obviously as religious as the others are.
to:
** Downplayed. Subverted. The pagans Pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against on those in response to a public assault on a pagan priest. They Pagan priest, and they also seem to be friendly or at least indifferent to Alexandria's Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to Jews. However, once the provocation happens, the pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other.
** In an unrelated latter, thepagan Pagan prayers said to Serapis are strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christianity, which might have been deliberately written in to underline this trope.
* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: The whole reason Christians started slaughteringpagans Pagans and later Jews. Subverted because Christians are obviously as religious as the others are.
** In an unrelated latter, the
* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: The whole reason Christians started slaughtering
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Deleted line(s) 21 (click to see context) :
* BlackAndBlackMorality: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, intransigent and bent on provocation and escalation.
Added DiffLines:
* EvilVersusEvil: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, intransigent and bent on provocation and escalation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given their portrayal in this film is that of agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of the latter's attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, these particular intellectuals actually brought it upon themselves for completely unrelated reasons.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of the latter's attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, these particular intellectuals actually brought it upon themselves for completely unrelated reasons.
to:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given that their portrayal in this film is that of agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith playsa lot with the idea. idea]]. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this the film is a tragical tragic victory of the latter's attitude. However, ''However'', it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, The message of the film, therefore, seems to be that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, these particular intellectuals actually [[LaserGuidedKarma brought it upon themselves themselves]] for completely unrelated reasons.
* AntiIntellectualism: The film [[PlayedWith plays
Changed line(s) 12,13 (click to see context) from:
** In RealLife, Hypatia was a Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 CE]]. Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 CE]]. Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
to:
** In RealLife, Hypatia was a Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear).clearer). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** While there was really a Serapeumin which was that housed an academy, the notion that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 CE]]. Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
** While there was really a Serapeum
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate, and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. (That said, there is some modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.)
to:
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate, and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality.sexuality altogether. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. (That said, there is some modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.point.)
Changed line(s) 19,21 (click to see context) from:
* BarefootSage: [[PlayedWith Played with]]; Hypatia isn't always barefoot, but she seems to have a habit of taking off her sandals when teaching her students this way.
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic Pagans.
* BlackAndBlackMorality: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, ignorant and bent on provocation and escalation.
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic Pagans.
* BlackAndBlackMorality: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, ignorant and bent on provocation and escalation.
to:
* BarefootSage: [[PlayedWith Played with]]; Hypatia isn't always barefoot, but she seems to have a habit of taking off her sandals when teaching her students this way.
students.
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheisticPagans.
pagans.
* BlackAndBlackMorality: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent,ignorant intransigent and bent on provocation and escalation.
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic
* BlackAndBlackMorality: Neither the Christians, nor the pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent,
Changed line(s) 27,29 (click to see context) from:
** The pagans try to organize a massacre of dozens of Christians in retaliation for the Parabalani's assault on a single priest. It is implied that this not the first not the only action the Christians had taken to harass the pagans, but it is still a fair bit of an overreaction.
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
%%* EasyEvangelism: How Davus the slave became Christian.
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
%%* EasyEvangelism: How Davus the slave became Christian.
to:
** The pagans try to organize a massacre of dozens of Christians in retaliation for the Parabalani's assault on a single priest. It is implied that this not neither the first not nor the only action the Christians had taken to harass the pagans, but it is still a fair bit of an overreaction.
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (evenif if, paradoxically, she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and not just that, he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually ''sexually assaulting her her'' when next they meet]].
%%* * EasyEvangelism: How Davus the slave became Christian.Christian, as well as many other people in Alexandria do. This is well explained through the varied sights of Christian sects preaching against slavery and feeding poor people, which naturally gives them a boost in popularity at a social level.
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even
Changed line(s) 34 (click to see context) from:
* TheHeretic: Hypatia, after paganism became illegal. Considering she was a principled atheist ("You do not question what you believe; you cannot. I must."), she was technically a heretic from the beginning.
to:
* TheHeretic: Hypatia, after paganism became illegal. Considering she was a principled atheist ("You do not question what you believe; you cannot. I must.''must''."), she was technically a heretic from the beginning.
Changed line(s) 45,46 (click to see context) from:
** Downplayed. The pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they also seem to be friendly or indifferent to the Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to them. However, once the provocation happens, the pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other.
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis are strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christiandom, which might have written in to underline this trope.
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis are strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christiandom, which might have written in to underline this trope.
to:
** Downplayed. The pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they pagan priest. They also seem to be friendly or at least indifferent to the Alexandria's Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to them.Jews. However, once the provocation happens, the pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other.
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis are strikingly similar to some attributes given to God inChristiandom, Christianity, which might have been deliberately written in to underline this trope.
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis are strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
TRS Cleanup for Good Colors Evil Colors- Removed misused example (examples should show contrast between moralities; if neither color designates "goodness", well...)
Deleted line(s) 34 (click to see context) :
* GoodColorsEvilColors: The Christians dress mostly in black (with some clerical orders using white) while Jews are clad in grey and pagans use white. The funny thing is that none are truly good; in fact, the only color associated with good is red, which is both used by the Roman army and Hypatia herself after Alexandria's library's demise. Justified because it's historically accurate.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* AntiIntellectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of the latter's attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, those particular intellectuals actually brought it upon them for completely unrelated reasons.
to:
* AntiIntellectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of the latter's attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intellectualism is bad in any form, those these particular intellectuals actually brought it upon them themselves for completely unrelated reasons.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* DeliberateValuesDissonance: For all her rationalist outlooks, and although she tries to be nice to her slaves, Hypatia is perfectly fine with the institution of slavery and notably lists "people" and "slaves" as being two different categories of beings several times. This is a plot point; Davus is obviously quite intelligent and shares Hypatia's interest in science, but his knowledge that he never will be recognized as "equal" in a traditional, pagan society drives him into the arms of a radical Christian sect, the Parabolani, where he ''is'' regarded as equal despite his status.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given their portrayal as agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
* AntiIntelectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of their attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christianity surpasses Paganism in the first place is because they preach for equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the Pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intelectualism is presented as bad in any form, those particular intelectuals actually brought it upon them for completely unrelated reasons.
* AntiIntelectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of their attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christianity surpasses Paganism in the first place is because they preach for equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the Pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intelectualism is presented as bad in any form, those particular intelectuals actually brought it upon them for completely unrelated reasons.
to:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given their portrayal as in this film is that of agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
*AntiIntelectualism: AntiIntellectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of their the latter's attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christianity surpasses Paganism Christians surpass paganism in the first place is because they preach for social equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the Pagans pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intelectualism anti-intellectualism is presented as bad in any form, those particular intelectuals intellectuals actually brought it upon them for completely unrelated reasons.
*
Changed line(s) 12,13 (click to see context) from:
** In RealLife, Hypatia was an ardent Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it carried rescued books from the burned Great Library is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it carried rescued books from the burned Great Library is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
to:
** In RealLife, Hypatia was an ardent a Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378C.E.]] and CE]]. Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it still carried rescued books from the burned Great Library by the time of the film is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate, and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. (That said, there is modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.)
to:
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate, and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never known the topic of love. (That said, there is some modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.)
Changed line(s) 25 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: DisproportionateRetribution:
** The pagans try to organize a massacre of dozens of Christians in retaliation for the Parabalani's assault on a single priest. It is implied that this not the first not the only action the Christians had taken to harass the pagans, but it is still a fair bit of an overreaction.
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
** The pagans try to organize a massacre of dozens of Christians in retaliation for the Parabalani's assault on a single priest. It is implied that this not the first not the only action the Christians had taken to harass the pagans, but it is still a fair bit of an overreaction.
** Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
Changed line(s) 31 (click to see context) from:
* GoodColorsEvilColors: The Christians and Jews dress mostly in black or grey (with some clerical orders using white) while pagans use white. Fun fact: ''none are truly good''; in fact, the only color associated with good is red, which is both used by the Roman army and Hypatia herself after Alexandria's library's demise. Justified because it's historically accurate.
to:
* GoodColorsEvilColors: The Christians and Jews dress mostly in black or grey (with some clerical orders using white) while Jews are clad in grey and pagans use white. Fun fact: ''none The funny thing is that none are truly good''; good; in fact, the only color associated with good is red, which is both used by the Roman army and Hypatia herself after Alexandria's library's demise. Justified because it's historically accurate.
Changed line(s) 42 (click to see context) from:
* NotSoDifferent: Downplayed. The pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they also seem to be indifferent to the Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to them. However, once the provocation happens, the Pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other. Their prayers to Serapis are also strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christiandom, which might have written in to underline this fact.
to:
* NotSoDifferent: NotSoDifferent:
** Downplayed. The pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they also seem to be friendly or indifferent to the Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to them. However, once the provocation happens, thePagans pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other. Their other.
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis arealso strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christiandom, which might have written in to underline this fact.trope.
** Downplayed. The pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they also seem to be friendly or indifferent to the Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to them. However, once the provocation happens, the
** In an unrelated latter, the pagan prayers to Serapis are
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8,9 (click to see context) from:
* AgeLift: Possibly subverted. The real Hypatia was over 60, while Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming. However, other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 30, and given the other liberties taken by the film (see Artistic License - History below), maybe they deliberately chose those to believe them in order to make her younger.
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to fantasy gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given their portrayal as agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to fantasy gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given their portrayal as agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
to:
* AgeLift: Possibly subverted. The real Hypatia was over 60, while Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming. However, other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 30, and given the other liberties taken by the film (see Artistic License - History below), maybe they deliberately chose those to believe them in order to make her younger.
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar tofantasy gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given their portrayal as agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.casual.
* AntiIntelectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of their attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christianity surpasses Paganism in the first place is because they preach for equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the Pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intelectualism is presented as bad in any form, those particular intelectuals actually brought it upon them for completely unrelated reasons.
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to
* AntiIntelectualism: The film plays a lot with the idea. The pagans treasure knowledge and have a lot of men (and women!) of science among them, whereas most Christians shown onscreen are unreasonable and comically uncultured, and the ultimate conclusion of this film is a tragical victory of their attitude. However, it is also implied the reason why Christianity surpasses Paganism in the first place is because they preach for equality and run charity organizations among the poor, while the Pagans don't give a crap about social affairs and instead dedicate themselves to higher, more ethereal scientific affairs. It is subtly outlined, therefore, that while anti-intelectualism is presented as bad in any form, those particular intelectuals actually brought it upon them for completely unrelated reasons.
Added DiffLines:
* {{Battlecry}}: The Christians shout "God is one!" to differentiate from the polytheistic Pagans.
Added DiffLines:
* NotSoDifferent: Downplayed. The pagans in the film ''are'' portrayed as more tolerant towards other religions than Christians, as they only organize an attack against those in response to a public assault on a Pagan priest, and they also seem to be indifferent to the Jew population, while the Christians are openly hostile to them. However, once the provocation happens, the Pagans become just as violent and bloodthirsty as their opponents, and in the ensuing battle there is no moral distinction between a mob and the other. Their prayers to Serapis are also strikingly similar to some attributes given to God in Christiandom, which might have written in to underline this fact.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: Evoked at least visually with the Parabalani, the militant Christian monks. Their attires are black, sleeveless and with a crossed strap design, making them weirdly similar to fantasy gladiators or martial artists a la Kenshiro from ''Manga/FistOfTheNorthStar''. Given their portrayal as agitators and urban fighters, this is definitely not casual.
Changed line(s) 10,13 (click to see context) from:
** In RealLife, Hypatia was an ardent Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she actually declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it carried rescued books from the burned Great Library is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books.
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia was only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was very popular and respected by Christians and non-Christians alike, and and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her murder. While her murderers were certainly Christians and probably in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, some chroniclers claim she was killed by entirely political reasons (namely, a rumor accusing her of manipulating Orestes in his enmity with Cyril) instead of religious disputes.
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to be all out for celibacy, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never loved someone. (That said, there is modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.)
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it carried rescued books from the burned Great Library is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books.
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia was only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was very popular and respected by Christians and non-Christians alike, and and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her murder. While her murderers were certainly Christians and probably in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, some chroniclers claim she was killed by entirely political reasons (namely, a rumor accusing her of manipulating Orestes in his enmity with Cyril) instead of religious disputes.
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to be all out for celibacy, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never loved someone. (That said, there is modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.)
to:
** In RealLife, Hypatia was an ardent Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she actually declares herself an atheist or an agnostic (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in real life).
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it carried rescued books from the burned Great Library is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, notbooks.
books. This might have been added to the film in order to increase the place's mystique.
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia was only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was very popular and respected by Christians and non-Christians alike, andand pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her murder. While her murderers were certainly Christians and probably in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, some chroniclers claim she was killed by entirely political reasons (namely, a rumor accusing her of manipulating Orestes in his enmity with Cyril) instead of religious disputes.
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia wascelibate celibate, and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to be all out for celibacy, condemn sex by itself, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never loved someone.known the topic of love. (That said, there is modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.)
** While there was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy, the notion that it carried rescued books from the burned Great Library is highly questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia was only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was very popular and respected by Christians and non-Christians alike, and
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* AgeLift: Possibly subverted. The real Hypatia was over 60, while Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming. However, other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, and given the other liberties taken by the film (see Artistic License - History below), maybe they deliberately chose those to believe them in order to make her younger.
to:
* AgeLift: Possibly subverted. The real Hypatia was over 60, while Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming. However, other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, 30, and given the other liberties taken by the film (see Artistic License - History below), maybe they deliberately chose those to believe them in order to make her younger.
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
** The Roman soldier use equipment from the first century AD when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD.
to:
** According to Neoplatonist chronicler Damascius, Hypatia was celibate and her rejection of a suitor via menstrual rags was even nastier than portrayed in ''Agora'': she did not use it to merely dispel his idealization of her, but to condemn his sexuality. The Hypatia from the film doesn't seem to be all out for celibacy, given the mentioned modification, and even has a scene lamenting she has never loved someone. (That said, there is modern debate about whether she was just like Damascius describes her or if he was trying to make her look the purest, holiest possible for propaganda reasons; he acknowledges she was married, which is not incompatible with celibacy but makes an interesting clue.)
** The Romansoldier soldiers use equipment from the first century AD when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD.
** The Roman
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
%%* TheBadGuyWins
to:
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* ChurchMilitant: The monks (Parabolani) will stone you to death, skin you alive and generally kill you in the most unpleasant ways if you are against their faith.
to:
* ChurchMilitant: The Parabalani monks (Parabolani) will stone you to death, skin you alive and generally kill you in the most unpleasant ways if you are against their faith.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added line(s) 7 (click to see context) :
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* AgeLift: Possibly subverted. The real Hypatia was over 60, while Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming. However, other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, and given the liberties taken by the film, maybe they deliberately chose those to make her younger.
to:
* AgeLift: Possibly subverted. The real Hypatia was over 60, while Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming. However, other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, and given the other liberties taken by the film, film (see Artistic License - History below), maybe they deliberately chose those to believe them in order to make her younger.
Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
** Hypatia, an ardent Neoplatonist in RealLife, becomes something of an agnostic or atheist in the film (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in RealLife).
** There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. That said, there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Also, Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
** There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. That said, there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Also, Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
to:
** Hypatia, In RealLife, Hypatia was an ardent Neoplatonist Neoplatonist. In the film, she is still officially such, as she teaches in RealLife, becomes something of a Platonic school and is labelled as a pagan, but she actually declares herself an atheist or an agnostic or atheist in the film (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in RealLife).
real life).
**There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. That said, While there ''was'' was really a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned academy, the notion that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but it carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books from the burned Great Library is highly questionable though, questionable, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, Socrates of Constantinople, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Also, books.
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia wasactually well-respected only known among her former disciples and her Christian enemies. In real life, Hypatia was very popular and respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, Christians and non-Christians alike, and and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.murder. While her murderers were certainly Christians and probably in league with Cyril and the Parabalani, some chroniclers claim she was killed by entirely political reasons (namely, a rumor accusing her of manipulating Orestes in his enmity with Cyril) instead of religious disputes.
** The Roman soldier use equipment from the first century AD when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD.
**
** The film gives the impression that, after the pagans disappeared from Alexandria, Hypatia was
** The Roman soldier use equipment from the first century AD when the film is actually set in the fifth century AD.
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
* BarefootSage: [[PlayedWith Played with]]; Hypatia isn't always barefoot, but she seems to have a habit of taking off her footwear when indoors (in particular, teaching her students this way).
to:
* BarefootSage: [[PlayedWith Played with]]; Hypatia isn't always barefoot, but she seems to have a habit of taking off her footwear sandals when indoors (in particular, teaching her students this way).way.
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* DisproportionateRetribution: Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing. This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
to:
* DisproportionateRetribution: Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing.packing and generally adheres to the idea that slaves are lower than free people (even if she still treats Davus better than she treats some free men). This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
Changed line(s) 32 (click to see context) from:
* NobleBigot: Christians in the movie are genuinely good people... unless you belong to any religion but theirs.
to:
* NobleBigot: NobleBigot:
** Christians in the movie are genuinely good people... unless you belong to any religion buttheirs.theirs.
** Hypatia herself doesn't consider slaves to be people, even if she usually treats them kindly.
** Christians in the movie are genuinely good people... unless you belong to any religion but
** Hypatia herself doesn't consider slaves to be people, even if she usually treats them kindly.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* ArtisticLicenseHistory:
** Hypatia, an ardent Neoplatonist in RealLife, becomes something of an agnostic or atheist in the film (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in RealLife).
** There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. That said, there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Also, Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
** Hypatia, an ardent Neoplatonist in RealLife, becomes something of an agnostic or atheist in the film (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in RealLife).
** There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. That said, there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Also, Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
Deleted line(s) 23,24 (click to see context) :
* HistoricalHeroUpgrade: Hypatia, an ardent pagan in RealLife becomes something of an agnostic or atheist in the film (presumably so the faith vs. science controversy will be clear). This allows her to use empirical reasoning, which in real life was [[http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/10-07-28/#feature contrary to her school of thought and religion.]] Consequently, she is shown making astronomical advances which rely on these methods (despite there being no contemporary evidence tying her to these advances in RealLife).
* HollywoodHistory: There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. That said, there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
* HollywoodHistory: There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. That said, there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 7 (click to see context) from:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: All monks (Parabolani) know how to stone you to death, skin you alive and generally kill you in the most unpleasant ways.
to:
* AllMonksKnowKungFu: All monks (Parabolani) know how AgeLift: Possibly subverted. The real Hypatia was over 60, while Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming. However, other sources identified Hypatia's age to stone you to death, skin you alive be about 40, and generally kill you in given the most unpleasant ways.liberties taken by the film, maybe they deliberately chose those to make her younger.
Changed line(s) 12,13 (click to see context) from:
%%* ChurchMilitant
* CorruptChurch: {{Subverted}}; it's not corrupt, but very fanatical.
* CorruptChurch: {{Subverted}}; it's not corrupt, but very fanatical.
to:
* CorruptChurch: {{Subverted}}; it's not corrupt, not in the classic sense of the word, but rather the opposite: sincere and very fanatical.
Changed line(s) 15 (click to see context) from:
* TheDogBitesBack: Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing. This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
to:
* TheDogBitesBack: DisproportionateRetribution: Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing. This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
Changed line(s) 21 (click to see context) from:
* GoodColorsEvilColors: The Christians and Jews dress mostly in black or grey (with some clerical orders using white) while pagans use white. Fun fact: '''none are truly good'''; in fact, the only color associated with good is red, which is both used by the Roman army and Hypatia herself after Alexandria's library's demise. Justified because it's historically accurate.
to:
* GoodColorsEvilColors: The Christians and Jews dress mostly in black or grey (with some clerical orders using white) while pagans use white. Fun fact: '''none ''none are truly good'''; good''; in fact, the only color associated with good is red, which is both used by the Roman army and Hypatia herself after Alexandria's library's demise. Justified because it's historically accurate.
Changed line(s) 24,25 (click to see context) from:
* HollywoodHistory: There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. But there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
* HollywoodOld: Hypatia, looking like 30 even at the last part of the movie when the real Hypatia was over 60 (Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming, too). Other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, and given the liberties taken by the film, maybe they even deliberately made her younger.
* HollywoodOld: Hypatia, looking like 30 even at the last part of the movie when the real Hypatia was over 60 (Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming, too). Other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, and given the liberties taken by the film, maybe they even deliberately made her younger.
to:
* HollywoodHistory: There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. But That said, there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
* HollywoodOld: Hypatia, looking like 30 even at the last part of the movie when the real Hypatia was over 60 (Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming, too). Other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, and given the liberties taken by the film, maybe they even deliberately made her younger.death.
* HollywoodOld: Hypatia, looking like 30 even at the last part of the movie when the real Hypatia was over 60 (Rachel Weisz was nearly 40 at the time of filming, too). Other sources identified Hypatia's age to be about 40, and given the liberties taken by the film, maybe they even deliberately made her younger.
Changed line(s) 33,36 (click to see context) from:
* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: The whole reason Christians started slaughtering pagans and later Jews. Subverted because Christians are obviously as religious as the others were.
* PetTheDog: Cyril is shown giving bread to the poor and teaches Davus to be kind to the poor.
* PrettyBoy: Bishop Synesius of Cyrene, played by the British actor Rupert Evans
* RaceLift: Probably one of the biggest mistakes of the movie is portraying all Jews as white. Although Christianity encouraged conversion and gained a number of followers from all religions, Jews at this point were still a small ethnoreligious group from the Levant.
* PetTheDog: Cyril is shown giving bread to the poor and teaches Davus to be kind to the poor.
* PrettyBoy: Bishop Synesius of Cyrene, played by the British actor Rupert Evans
* RaceLift: Probably one of the biggest mistakes of the movie is portraying all Jews as white. Although Christianity encouraged conversion and gained a number of followers from all religions, Jews at this point were still a small ethnoreligious group from the Levant.
to:
* OutgrownSuchSillySuperstitions: The whole reason Christians started slaughtering pagans and later Jews. Subverted because Christians are obviously as religious as the others were.
are.
* PetTheDog: Cyril is shown giving bread to the poor and teaches Davus to be kind tothe poor.
them.
* PrettyBoy: Bishop Synesius of Cyrene, played by the British actor RupertEvans
Evans.
* RaceLift:Probably one of the biggest mistakes of the movie is portraying all The ethnic Jews as white.are all portrayed by white actors. Although Christianity encouraged conversion and gained a number of followers from all religions, Jews at this point were still a small ethnoreligious group from the Levant.
* PetTheDog: Cyril is shown giving bread to the poor and teaches Davus to be kind to
* PrettyBoy: Bishop Synesius of Cyrene, played by the British actor Rupert
* RaceLift:
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* AsTheGoodBookSays: Cyril quotes passages from the Bible to turn the mob against Orestes, specifically quoting verses that state [[StayInTheKitchen women should be submissive]] to men, which led the mob to consider Hypatia a witch and kill her.
to:
* AsTheGoodBookSays: Cyril quotes passages from the Bible Literature/TheBible to turn the mob against Orestes, specifically quoting verses that state [[StayInTheKitchen women should be submissive]] to men, which led the mob to consider Hypatia a witch and kill her.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Sorry, looked like rape Right Through His Pants to me. Mercy Kill makes more sense given Davus' motivation at the moment.
Deleted line(s) 37 (click to see context) :
* RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil: [[spoiler:When the rest of the mob goes out to get stones to kill Hypatia, Davus stays behind, presumably to watch the prisoner. Before they return, he rapes her to add to her defilement.]]
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* RapeIsASpecialKindOfEvil: [[spoiler:When the rest of the mob goes out to get stones to kill Hypatia, Davus stays behind, presumably to watch the prisoner. Before they return, he rapes her to add to her defilement.]]
Added DiffLines:
* RightForTheWrongReasons: Hypatia correctly comes to the conclusion that planets orbit in ellipses, but on the assumption that summer and winter come when the Earth is closer to and farther away from the sun, not due to the tilt of the Earth's axis of rotation.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
* PetTheDog: Cyril is shown giving bread to the poor and teaches Davus to be kind to the poor.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Commented out or removed Zero Context Examples. Only tropes can be listed. Tropes cannot be listed together with a slash in-between. Avoid examples that reference other examples. Don't customize a trope's name with a pothole (As The Good Book Says).
Deleted line(s) 7 (click to see context) :
* AffablyEvil / NobleBigot: Christians in the movie are genuinely good people... unless you belong to any religion but theirs.
Changed line(s) 9,10 (click to see context) from:
* [[AsTheGoodBookSays As The Bad Book Says]]: Cyril quotes passages from the Bible to turn the mob against Orestes, specifically quoting verses that state [[StayInTheKitchen women should be submissive]] to men, which led the mob to consider Hypatia a witch and kill her.
* TheBadGuyWins
* TheBadGuyWins
to:
* [[AsTheGoodBookSays As The Bad Book Says]]: AsTheGoodBookSays: Cyril quotes passages from the Bible to turn the mob against Orestes, specifically quoting verses that state [[StayInTheKitchen women should be submissive]] to men, which led the mob to consider Hypatia a witch and kill her.
* %%* TheBadGuyWins
Changed line(s) 13,14 (click to see context) from:
* Literature/TheBible
* ChurchMilitant
* ChurchMilitant
to:
*
Changed line(s) 18 (click to see context) from:
* EasyEvangelism: How Davus the slave became Christian.
to:
Changed line(s) 20 (click to see context) from:
* FaithHeelTurn
to:
Changed line(s) 30,31 (click to see context) from:
* KnightTemplar: The parabolani.
* LoveTriangle / TwoGuysAndAGirl: Hypatia, Orestes and Davus.
* LoveTriangle / TwoGuysAndAGirl: Hypatia, Orestes and Davus.
to:
*
Changed line(s) 33,34 (click to see context) from:
* MyGodWhatHaveIDone: See below.
* NearRapeExperience: [[spoiler: Davus manages to stop himself during his attack on Hypatia, and offers his knife to her, expecting to be killed. Instead, she gives him his freedom.]]
* NearRapeExperience: [[spoiler: Davus manages to stop himself during his attack on Hypatia, and offers his knife to her, expecting to be killed. Instead, she gives him his freedom.]]
to:
* NobleBigot: Christians in the movie are genuinely good people... unless you belong to any religion but theirs.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
* TheDogBitesBack: Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing. This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
Deleted line(s) 18 (click to see context) :
* TheDogBitesBack: Hypatia calls Davus an "idiot" while packing. This drives him to participate in the sacking of the library, and he [[spoiler: is only barely able to restrain himself from sexually assaulting her when next they meet]].
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* BlackAndBlackMorality: Neither the Christians, nor the Romans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, ignorant and bent on provocation and escalation.
to:
* BlackAndBlackMorality: Neither the Christians, nor the Romans, pagans, nor the Jews are portrayed in what could be described a positive way - they all are equally violent, ignorant and bent on provocation and escalation.
Changed line(s) 16 (click to see context) from:
* CycleOfRevenge: What begins with a couple of public speeches and marketplace debates between dissenting religious groups soon spirals into attacks and acts of public humiliation. Those soon culminate in fully-fledged riots and progroms, usually in direct retaliation.
to:
* CycleOfRevenge: What begins with a couple of public speeches and marketplace debates between dissenting religious groups soon spirals into attacks and acts of public humiliation. Those soon culminate in fully-fledged riots and progroms, pogroms, usually in direct retaliation.
Changed line(s) 26 (click to see context) from:
* HollywoodHistory: There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. But there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious axe to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.
to:
* HollywoodHistory: There was no second Great Library, Hypatia was killed because she was a supporter of a rival politician instead of for religious reasons, and her side wasn't nearly so blameless, either. But there ''was'' a Serapeum in which was housed an academy (and it is mentioned that the great library burned to the ground, and the Serapeum contains texts rescued from the blaze) and Hypatia's death was engineered by someone with political motives but carried out by people with a religious axe ax to grind. Whether the Serapeum actually carried any rescued books is highly questionable though, as contemporary evidence suggests [[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Attack_of_Aurelian.2C_3rd_century the collection was considered a thing of the past by 378 C.E.]] and Socretes, no enemy of knowledge, only mentioned religious artifacts being destroyed by the Christians, not books. Hypatia was actually well-respected by everyone in the community, including Christians, and pretty much everyone was horrified by the news of her death.