History Creator / KarlMarx

30th Nov '16 9:35:05 PM Xtifr
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'''Karl Marx''' (1818-1883) was a [[LoveItOrHateIt very polarizing]] German-born [[UsefulNotes/DichterAndDenker writer]] known best for writing about and advocating [[UsefulNotes/PoliticalIdeologies socialism and communism]]. Marx is one of the most important men to ever live, though how much of his influence is good or bad depends heavily on your own beliefs. His influence is so widespread that some people have said that ''the entire [[TheTwentiethCentury twentieth century]]'' is his legacy. His most well known and proverbial works are ''The Communist Manifesto'' (1848), a short pamphlet, co-written with Friedrich Engels, in response to [[UsefulNotes/RevolutionsOf1848 a series of revolutions across Europe that year]] and the {{Doorstopper}} that is ''Das Kapital''. Both works are by-words for socialism and communism, but neither was the first work about socialism - it was already a common word by the time it was published, and socialist thought was grounded in some of the more left-wing ideologues of UsefulNotes/TheEnlightenment (which Marx cited as his main influence).

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'''Karl Marx''' Karl Marx (1818-1883) was a [[LoveItOrHateIt very polarizing]] German-born [[UsefulNotes/DichterAndDenker writer]] known best for writing about and advocating [[UsefulNotes/PoliticalIdeologies socialism and communism]]. Marx is one of the most important men to ever live, though how much of his influence is good or bad depends heavily on your own beliefs. His influence is so widespread that some people have said that ''the entire [[TheTwentiethCentury twentieth century]]'' is his legacy. His most well known and proverbial works are ''The Communist Manifesto'' (1848), a short pamphlet, co-written with Friedrich Engels, in response to [[UsefulNotes/RevolutionsOf1848 a series of revolutions across Europe that year]] and the {{Doorstopper}} that is ''Das Kapital''. Both works are by-words for socialism and communism, but neither was the first work about socialism - it was already a common word by the time it was published, and socialist thought was grounded in some of the more left-wing ideologues of UsefulNotes/TheEnlightenment (which Marx cited as his main influence).
10th Nov '16 8:33:41 AM 06tele
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* ''Capital: Critique of Political Economy'', also known as ''Das Kapital'' (Volume 1, 1867; Volumes 2 and 3 released posthumously) -- his magnum opus. He set out to basically write down every single thought he had about economics and society with these books. Since Marx [[BrilliantButLazy kept procrastinating finishing the thing]] for several years, he died before the second and third volumes were fully completed. Engels edited them after Marx's death and published them. It's ''massive'', so much so that many modern Communist and Marxist movements advise not reading it out of necessity. The opening chapters of Volume 1 are Marx's theories about labour and value, which is a pity, because many readers never make it to the much later, much more vivid and harrowing stuff about industrial conditions in 19th century England, which drew on Marx's exhaustive reading of government reports on the subject.

to:

* ''Capital: Critique of Political Economy'', also known as ''Das Kapital'' (Volume 1, 1867; Volumes 2 and 3 released posthumously) -- his magnum opus. He set out to basically write down every single thought he had about economics and society with these books. Since Marx [[BrilliantButLazy kept procrastinating finishing the thing]] for several years, he died before the second and third volumes were fully completed. Engels edited them after Marx's death and published them. It's ''massive'', so much so that many modern Communist and Marxist movements advise not reading it out of necessity. The hardest parts to understand are the opening chapters of Volume 1 are 1, which consist of Marx's abstract theories about labour and value, which value. This is a pity, because many readers never make it to the much later, much more later chapters, which contain vivid and harrowing stuff about accounts of industrial conditions in 19th century England, which drew on Marx's exhaustive reading of with extensive quotes from government reports on the subject.
10th Nov '16 8:31:43 AM 06tele
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* ''Grundrisse'' (1858) - Unfinished. An examination of a wide variety of topics, namely ones tying to economics. It is basically a dry run for ''Das Kapital''.

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* ''Grundrisse'' (1858) - Unfinished. An examination of a wide variety of topics, namely ones tying to economics. It is basically Basically a dry run for ''Das Kapital''.''Capital'', although some Marx scholars hold that there's stuff in this book that Marx left undeveloped.



* ''Capital: Critique of Political Economy'', also known as ''Das Kapital'' (Volume 1, 1867; Volumes 2 and 3 released posthumously) - Probably his masterwork. He set out to basically write down every single thought he had about economics and society with these books. Since Marx [[BrilliantButLazy kept procrastinating finishing the thing]] for several years, he died before the second and third volumes were fully completed. Engels edited them after Marx's death and published them. It's ''massive'', so much so that many modern Communist and Marxist movements advise not reading it out of necessity, since its pretty much impossible to read and understand the whole thing without devoting oneself to its study.

to:

* ''Capital: Critique of Political Economy'', also known as ''Das Kapital'' (Volume 1, 1867; Volumes 2 and 3 released posthumously) - Probably -- his masterwork.magnum opus. He set out to basically write down every single thought he had about economics and society with these books. Since Marx [[BrilliantButLazy kept procrastinating finishing the thing]] for several years, he died before the second and third volumes were fully completed. Engels edited them after Marx's death and published them. It's ''massive'', so much so that many modern Communist and Marxist movements advise not reading it out of necessity, since its pretty necessity. The opening chapters of Volume 1 are Marx's theories about labour and value, which is a pity, because many readers never make it to the much impossible to read later, much more vivid and understand harrowing stuff about industrial conditions in 19th century England, which drew on Marx's exhaustive reading of government reports on the whole thing without devoting oneself to its study.subject.
22nd Oct '16 11:12:14 AM Jhonny
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Added DiffLines:

* FlameBait: Marx and his views in general (he was himself no stranger to heated debate and kicked out of his place of residency more than once for his views), but [[SchmuckBait for added fun]] say something like "Marx was right" in the US or ask whether a Marxist revolution can happen prior to industrialization in Marxist circles. If you get out alive, you will hear some very interesting arguments.
22nd Oct '16 5:41:16 AM Morgenthaler
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* InsistentTerminology: There are many (so-called) Marxists who believe that other (so-called) Marxists, such as UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin, UsefulNotes/JosefStalin, MaoZedong, and UsefulNotes/CheGuevara, were not really Marxists. It's pretty much a FlameBait subject. It's accurate in that Marx himself certainly didn't refer to ''his'' ideas as Marxist [[ViewersAreGeniuses and he often assumed or expected people would read his works with the same attention to context and detail that he read everything]] so would make references to complex ideas assuming his readership were familiar with it. The other thing is that before the October Revolution, not all of his works were published, and only after the USSR came in, that his earlier works, (called "Young Marx" by academics) were unearthed, showing a more humanistic and analytical side than his later works did. So the views people had about him began to change as his older works were published. The Soviets for their part could hardly be blamed for not reading all his books since they went by what was published.

to:

* InsistentTerminology: There are many (so-called) Marxists who believe that other (so-called) Marxists, such as UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin, UsefulNotes/JosefStalin, MaoZedong, UsefulNotes/MaoZedong, and UsefulNotes/CheGuevara, were not really Marxists. It's pretty much a FlameBait subject. It's accurate in that Marx himself certainly didn't refer to ''his'' ideas as Marxist [[ViewersAreGeniuses and he often assumed or expected people would read his works with the same attention to context and detail that he read everything]] so would make references to complex ideas assuming his readership were familiar with it. The other thing is that before the October Revolution, not all of his works were published, and only after the USSR came in, that his earlier works, (called "Young Marx" by academics) were unearthed, showing a more humanistic and analytical side than his later works did. So the views people had about him began to change as his older works were published. The Soviets for their part could hardly be blamed for not reading all his books since they went by what was published.
18th Sep '16 9:37:15 PM JulianLapostat
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He actually spent much of his life outside of his homeland. Due to his open, enthusiastic association with all of the most radical people of the day, Marx essentially had no chance of ever becoming a professional academic and the Kingdom of Prussia eventually exiled him. He moved to Paris in 1843, and was kicked out of France in 1849. From then on, he mostly lived in London. Nevertheless, Marx is still an icon throughout much of Germany. A nationwide poll in 2003 saw that Germans voted him as the third-greatest German of all time, behind only [[UsefulNotes/TheChancellorsOfGermany West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer]] and Protestant Reformation leader Martin Luther. To put this in perspective, Marx ranked above all of the country's [[Music/JohannSebastianBach great]] [[Music/WolfgangAmadeusMozart classical]] [[Music/LudwigVanBeethoven composers]], UsefulNotes/AlbertEinstein, and UsefulNotes/OttoVonBismarck. In fact, Marx has a far better reputation in Europe (and Asia, Africa, South America) than he does in the United States. People over there, even several of his critics, are more willing to admit that he actually was a smart guy who accomplished a lot, while Americans usually associate him with [[GloriousMotherRussia their old enemy the Soviet Union]] and their satellite nations they fought in ProxyWar during the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. Germany's version of him is the more accurate one: He was (probably) incorrect about how the future will inevitably lead to a classless paradise, but he was right about many other things. In any case, by taking the stances that Marx did, he is certain to remain controversial and contentious for future generations and since h never wrote for academic and mainstream respectability to start with, [[CoolPeopleRebelAgainstAuthority it would suit him just fine that his ideas are still outside the mainstream establishment more than 130 years after his death]].

to:

He actually spent much of his life outside of his homeland. Due to his open, enthusiastic association with all of the most radical people of the day, Marx essentially had no chance of ever becoming a professional academic and the Kingdom of Prussia eventually exiled him. He moved to Paris in 1843, and was kicked out of France in 1849. From then on, he mostly lived in London. Nevertheless, Marx is still an icon throughout much of Germany. A nationwide poll in 2003 saw that Germans voted him as the third-greatest German of all time, behind only [[UsefulNotes/TheChancellorsOfGermany West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer]] and Protestant Reformation leader Martin Luther. To put this in perspective, Marx ranked above all of the country's [[Music/JohannSebastianBach great]] [[Music/WolfgangAmadeusMozart classical]] [[Music/LudwigVanBeethoven composers]], UsefulNotes/AlbertEinstein, and UsefulNotes/OttoVonBismarck. In fact, Marx has a far better reputation in Europe (and Asia, Africa, South America) than he does in the United States. People over there, even several of his critics, are more willing to admit that he actually was a smart guy who accomplished a lot, while Americans usually associate him with [[GloriousMotherRussia their old enemy the Soviet Union]] and their satellite nations they fought in ProxyWar during the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. Germany's version of him is the more accurate one: He was (probably) incorrect about how the future will inevitably lead to a classless paradise, but he was right about many other things. In any case, by taking the stances that Marx did, he is certain to remain controversial and contentious for future generations and since h he never wrote for academic and mainstream respectability to start with, [[CoolPeopleRebelAgainstAuthority it would suit him just fine that his ideas are still outside the mainstream establishment more than 130 years after his death]].
18th Sep '16 9:36:43 PM JulianLapostat
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He actually spent much of his life outside of his homeland. Due to his open, enthusiastic association with all of the most radical people of the day, Marx essentially had no chance of ever becoming a professional academic and the Kingdom of Prussia eventually exiled him. He moved to Paris in 1843, and was kicked out of France in 1849. From then on, he mostly lived in London. Nevertheless, Marx is still an icon throughout much of Germany. A nationwide poll in 2003 saw that Germans voted him as the third-greatest German of all time, behind only [[UsefulNotes/TheChancellorsOfGermany West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer]] and Protestant Reformation leader Martin Luther. To put this in perspective, Marx ranked above all of the country's [[Music/JohannSebastianBach great]] [[Music/WolfgangAmadeusMozart classical]] [[Music/LudwigVanBeethoven composers]], UsefulNotes/AlbertEinstein, and UsefulNotes/OttoVonBismarck. In fact, Marx has a far better reputation in Europe than he does in the United States. People over there, even several of his critics, are more willing to admit that he actually was a smart guy who accomplished a lot, while Americans usually associate him with the [[GloriousMotherRussia their old enemy the Soviet Union]] and their satellite nations they fought in ProxyWar during the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. Germany's version of him is the more accurate one: He was (probably) incorrect about how the future will inevitably lead to a classless paradise, but he was right about many other things. In any case, by taking the stances that Marx did, he is certain to remain controversial and contentious for future generations.

to:

He actually spent much of his life outside of his homeland. Due to his open, enthusiastic association with all of the most radical people of the day, Marx essentially had no chance of ever becoming a professional academic and the Kingdom of Prussia eventually exiled him. He moved to Paris in 1843, and was kicked out of France in 1849. From then on, he mostly lived in London. Nevertheless, Marx is still an icon throughout much of Germany. A nationwide poll in 2003 saw that Germans voted him as the third-greatest German of all time, behind only [[UsefulNotes/TheChancellorsOfGermany West German Chancellor Konrad Adenauer]] and Protestant Reformation leader Martin Luther. To put this in perspective, Marx ranked above all of the country's [[Music/JohannSebastianBach great]] [[Music/WolfgangAmadeusMozart classical]] [[Music/LudwigVanBeethoven composers]], UsefulNotes/AlbertEinstein, and UsefulNotes/OttoVonBismarck. In fact, Marx has a far better reputation in Europe (and Asia, Africa, South America) than he does in the United States. People over there, even several of his critics, are more willing to admit that he actually was a smart guy who accomplished a lot, while Americans usually associate him with the [[GloriousMotherRussia their old enemy the Soviet Union]] and their satellite nations they fought in ProxyWar during the UsefulNotes/ColdWar. Germany's version of him is the more accurate one: He was (probably) incorrect about how the future will inevitably lead to a classless paradise, but he was right about many other things. In any case, by taking the stances that Marx did, he is certain to remain controversial and contentious for future generations.
generations and since h never wrote for academic and mainstream respectability to start with, [[CoolPeopleRebelAgainstAuthority it would suit him just fine that his ideas are still outside the mainstream establishment more than 130 years after his death]].
18th Sep '16 11:18:34 AM JulianLapostat
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* InsistentTerminology: There are many (so-called) Marxists who believe that other (so-called) Marxists, such as UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin, UsefulNotes/JosefStalin, MaoZedong, and UsefulNotes/CheGuevara, were not really Marxists. It's pretty much a FlameBait subject. It's accurate in that Marx himself certainly didn't refer to ''his'' ideas as Marxist [[ViewersAreGeniuses and he often assumed or expected people would read his works with the same attention to context and detail that he read everything]] so would make references to complex ideas assuming his readership were familiar with it. The other thing is that before the October Revolution, not all of his works were published, and only after the USSR came in, that his earlier works, (called "Young Marx" by academics) were unearthed, showing a more humanistic and analytical side than his later works did. So the views people had about him began to change as newer and older works were published.

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* InherentInTheSystem: Economic crises, Marx argued, was an inherent feature of Capitalism, rather than the rare exception economists said it would be.
** He noted that the many economic crises in his lifetime were always seen as rare special events that everyone DidntSeeThatComing but he argued that they demonstrated the fundamental instability of capitalism, where after each crisis someone comes up with a way to temporarily provide a stopgap solution until the next one comes along. He noted that crisis in capitalism differed from crises in feudal times in that it comes from surplus of wealth (what Thomas Piketty would call r>g), which was inevitable since capitalism was all about encouraging wealth and capital accumulation in the hands of the few, and as mechanization increases and the hunt for cheap labour continues, the gap would widen and keep widening and economic crises would become bigger as time passes.
** He also argued that socialists should LetNoCrisisGoToWaste and suggested that such economic crises was a proper time to mount a revolution or reform, and since these crises are inevitable features of capitalism, there's always an opportunity and potential for change. Fittingly, sales of Marx's works always go up during times of economic downturn.[[note]]Of course in actual history, socialist revolutions came out during times of war, as in the case of UsefulNotes/RedOctober, and TheGreatDepression resulted in the rise of UsefulNotes/NaziGermany. It was only in America, that the Depression actually led to socially democrat policies being instituted during the New Deal, and even then it was done to specifically prevent communist or right-wing movements. Marx was optimistically projecting his reading of UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution, which came after an economic crisis, into the future.[[/note]]
* InsistentTerminology: There are many (so-called) Marxists who believe that other (so-called) Marxists, such as UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin, UsefulNotes/JosefStalin, MaoZedong, and UsefulNotes/CheGuevara, were not really Marxists. It's pretty much a FlameBait subject. It's accurate in that Marx himself certainly didn't refer to ''his'' ideas as Marxist [[ViewersAreGeniuses and he often assumed or expected people would read his works with the same attention to context and detail that he read everything]] so would make references to complex ideas assuming his readership were familiar with it. The other thing is that before the October Revolution, not all of his works were published, and only after the USSR came in, that his earlier works, (called "Young Marx" by academics) were unearthed, showing a more humanistic and analytical side than his later works did. So the views people had about him began to change as newer and his older works were published. The Soviets for their part could hardly be blamed for not reading all his books since they went by what was published.
17th Sep '16 8:23:02 PM JulianLapostat
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* FlipFlopOfGod: Toward the end of his life, Marx became very open to the idea of countries turning to socialism through peaceful, democratic means. He did stress, however, that this won't be true for all of them, since some countries are such oppressive authoritative states that only a revolution could make it possible. See his feelings about the ReignOfTerror.
* FollowTheLeader: Most socialists and communists follow the guidelines laid by him and Lenin. Likewise, historians and social scientists who aren't entirely political have nonetheless been influenced by his philosophy of history.



* InsistentTerminology: There are many (so-called) Marxists who believe that other (so-called) Marxists, such as UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin, UsefulNotes/JosefStalin, MaoZedong, and UsefulNotes/CheGuevara, were not really Marxists. It's pretty much a FlameBait subject among his fans.

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* InsistentTerminology: There are many (so-called) Marxists who believe that other (so-called) Marxists, such as UsefulNotes/VladimirLenin, UsefulNotes/JosefStalin, MaoZedong, and UsefulNotes/CheGuevara, were not really Marxists. It's pretty much a FlameBait subject among subject. It's accurate in that Marx himself certainly didn't refer to ''his'' ideas as Marxist [[ViewersAreGeniuses and he often assumed or expected people would read his fans.works with the same attention to context and detail that he read everything]] so would make references to complex ideas assuming his readership were familiar with it. The other thing is that before the October Revolution, not all of his works were published, and only after the USSR came in, that his earlier works, (called "Young Marx" by academics) were unearthed, showing a more humanistic and analytical side than his later works did. So the views people had about him began to change as newer and older works were published.



--> '''Karl Marx''': ''"There is something [[LaserGuidedKarma in human history like retribution]]; and it is a rule of historical retribution that its instrument be forged not by the offended, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard but by the offender himself]]. The first blow dealt [[UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution the French monarch proceeded from the nobility]], not from the peasants. The Indian revolt does not commence with [[IndenturedServitude the Ryots]], tortured, dishonored and stripped naked by the British, but with [[PrivateMilitaryConractors the Sepoys]], clad, fed, petted, [[TurnedAgainstTheirMasters fatted and pampered by them]]."''

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--> '''Karl Marx''': ''"There is something [[LaserGuidedKarma in human history like retribution]]; and it is a rule of historical retribution that its instrument be forged not by the offended, [[HoistByHisOwnPetard but by the offender himself]]. The first blow dealt [[UsefulNotes/TheFrenchRevolution the French monarch proceeded from the nobility]], not from the peasants. The Indian revolt does not commence with [[IndenturedServitude the Ryots]], tortured, dishonored and stripped naked by the British, but with [[PrivateMilitaryConractors [[PrivateMilitaryContractors the Sepoys]], clad, fed, petted, [[TurnedAgainstTheirMasters fatted and pampered by them]]."''



** Marx likewise criticized the Paris Commune for not going further, and taking over the Parisian Banks and distributing wealth and property, and effectively arming themselves to protect themselves from the inevitable reactionary counterforce (which was incredibly bloody, killing 30,000 people in a single week[[note]]The original Terror, executed by guillotine after a trial, 17,000 in a single year by comparison[[/note]]. It's certainly true that Marx believed that in a revolutionary context, sometimes ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption especially in countries with strong and deeply entrenched reactionary forces.

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** Marx likewise criticized the Paris Commune for not going further, and taking over the Parisian Banks and distributing wealth and property, and effectively arming themselves to protect themselves from the inevitable reactionary counterforce (which was incredibly bloody, killing 30,000 people in a single week[[note]]The original Terror, executed by guillotine after a trial, 17,000 in a single year by comparison[[/note]]. It's certainly true that Marx believed that in a revolutionary context, sometimes ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption, especially in countries [[AristocratsAreEvil with strong and deeply entrenched reactionary forces.forces]], but he certainly didn't advocate this as a first resort nor did he completely advocate against democratic participation.



** Indeed, Marx in ''The Holy Family'' criticized The Young Hegelians a rabidly atheistic group for their arguments that religion was the only force blocking progress and that as soon as everyone became atheist all of society's problems would be solved. He pointed out that the United States of America had entered the Second Religious Revival and was also an aggressively capitalist and certainly progressive society by the standards of the 19th Century. In other words, while Marx was an atheist and proponent of science and secular education it would not be fair to see him as fundamentally anti-religious in the 21st Century sense[[note]]i.e. a view that sees religion as a backward and feudal relic with no role and function in a democratic advanced society, Marx saw it as related to income inequality and the reduction of the same would lead to a reduction in religious belief[[/note]].
** Incidentally, Marx's comparison of religion to opium was echoed by Charles Kingley, an Anglican priest who is sometimes seen as a founder of Christian socialism. Four years after Marx he noted that, ''We have used the Bible as if it were a mere special constable's hand book, an opium dose for keeping beasts of burden patient while they were being overloaded, a mere book to keep the poor in order'' and [[WhatTheHellHero lamented the role of religion in preserving social inequality rather than relieving it]].
* TheRevolutionWillNotBeCivilized: He heavily implied, if not outright stated, that this would happen. But to him, this would count as a NecessaryEvil since a world without revolution, of mass poverty, illiteracy, imperialism, UrbanSegregation and oppression of minorities was far less civilized than the worst revolutionary excess.

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** Indeed, Marx in ''The ''On the Jewish Question, The German Ideology, The Holy Family'' criticized The the Young Hegelians a rabidly atheistic group for their arguments that religion was the only force blocking progress and that as soon as everyone became atheist all of society's problems would be solved. He pointed out that the United States of America had entered the Second Religious Revival and was also an aggressively capitalist and certainly progressive society by the standards of the 19th Century. In other words, while Marx was an atheist and proponent of science and secular education it would not be fair to see him as fundamentally anti-religious in the 21st Century sense[[note]]i.e. a view that sees religion as a backward and feudal relic with no role and function in a democratic advanced society, Marx saw it as related to income inequality and the reduction of the same would lead to a reduction in religious belief[[/note]].
** Incidentally, Marx's comparison of religion to opium was echoed by Charles Kingley, an Anglican priest who is sometimes seen as a founder of Christian socialism. Four years after Marx he noted that, ''We have used the Bible as if it were a mere special constable's hand book, an opium dose for keeping beasts of burden patient while they were being overloaded, a mere book to keep the poor in order'' and [[WhatTheHellHero lamented the role of religion in preserving social inequality rather than relieving it]].
it]].
* TheRevolutionWillNotBeCivilized: He heavily implied, if not outright stated, that this would happen.happen at least in nations like Germany, Russia and other parts of Europe without consistent liberal institutions and infrastructure. But to him, this would count as a NecessaryEvil since a world without revolution, of mass poverty, illiteracy, imperialism, UrbanSegregation and oppression of minorities was far less civilized than the worst revolutionary excess.



** To be more precise, he (and Engels, his best friend, patron and a wealthy businessman) believed that the capitalist system was the cause of misery and opression, and that executives were a part of it, not individually evil, but that they kept an evil system in place.
* ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption: Initially he couldn't see that socialism could possibly be brought about by democratic reforms rather than working-class revolts. To be fair, he lived at a time when most of Europe didn't have universal suffrage. [[AvertedTrope However when he grew a bit older he supported peaceful democratic means of bringing about socialism]], largely because he saw the growing popularity of social democratic parties in democratic societies as proof better working conditions for the poor could be brought about peacefully. The reason he flipped on his position so quickly is mainly because he was never big on violence in the first place, unless (he felt) it was absolutely necessary. Future Communist dictators would proceed to basically ignore this.

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** To be more precise, he (and Engels, his best friend, patron and a wealthy businessman) believed that the capitalist system was the cause of misery and opression, oppression, and that executives were a part of it, not individually evil, but that they kept an evil system in place.
* ViolenceIsTheOnlyOption: Initially he couldn't see that socialism could possibly be brought about by democratic reforms rather than working-class revolts.
**
To be fair, he lived at a time when most of Europe didn't have universal suffrage. suffrage and the Continent was deeply oppressive with the Austrian Empire instituted by Metternich and his successors being in effect a PoliceState, Bismarck's Germany being a conservative militarist nation[[note]]albeit with social welfare and universal male suffrage and multi-parties in the Reichstag where nonetheless powers of foreign policy and war rested with the Kaiser[[/note]], and the Risorgimento despite its early aspirations ultimately stopping short of Garibaldi's radical vision. As the 20th Century would prove, these nations have fairly recent traditions of Democracy and they only accepted liberalism and social democracy after much revolutionary and counter-revolutionary bloodshed had been spilled.
** In the case of England and the United States,
[[AvertedTrope However however when he grew a bit older he supported peaceful democratic means of bringing about socialism]], largely because he saw the growing popularity of social democratic parties in democratic societies as proof that better working conditions for the poor could be brought about peacefully. peacefully and castigated Communists for not engaging in Parliamentary politics. In the case of the United States, he backed the Republican party of Lincoln's and supported its "free soil, free labour" and abolitionist ideas. The reason he flipped moderated on his position so quickly is mainly because he was never big on violence in the first place, unless (he felt) it was absolutely necessary. Future Communist dictators would proceed to basically ignore this.necessary and that he disliked other left-wing groups which advocated violence without having a vision or ideology in place, or still others who wanted revolution out of adventurism.
17th Sep '16 3:28:45 PM JulianLapostat
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Marx's influence in the Western liberal nations (what is now called the "First World") would be of a more intellectual and subtle nature. Marx is considered to be one of the founders of modern social sciences, along with Émile Durkheim and Max Weber. Unlike many other philosophers and intellectuals of his time, he insisted that social theories must be examined through a scientific method and direct on-the-ground empirical research of statistical records and figures. His philosophy of historical materialism was the first major case against the "Great Man" view of history of Kings/Emperors and Popes, and shifted attention to the largely neglected and relegated-to-a-footnote masses in history, paving the way for Annales historians such as Fernand Braudel and others. As an economist, Marx remains heterodox and outside the purview of mainstream economics who by and large reject his ideas and viewpoints. Yet Marx helped the world understand capitalism better than anyone since Adam Smith - for example, he was the first guy to develop explanations as to why the previously feudal countries of Europe became industrial economies and capitalist powerhouses [[note]]Marx's influence played a role in the more favorable reception of InternalReformist mainstream economists such as J. M. Keynes (who was an anti-Marxist) leading to many capitalist nations [[TheMoralSubstitute to accept some form of social welfare to pre-empt Communist ideas from taking root]], while Thomas Piketty in the 21st Century would make a case for progressive tax on the wealthy and checks on inherited wealth, points articulated by Marx in the Communist Manifesto. The backlash to Keynesian and the rise of neoliberal consensus, coincided with the decline and fall of the USSR, which led many to see such social welfare policies, justified as a reform and bulwark against Communism, [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness as having outlived its political utility]], leading to the rise of Third Way liberalism in the 90s that departed from Cold War Labour and Democrat commitments to welfare[/note]] Thanks to the influence of ''Das Kapital'', [[{{Irony}} Marx is the one responsible]] for the free market being known as capitalism. Much of what he wrote about how capitalism works actually stands up to scrutiny close to 200 years later. The study of sociology was also highly influenced by Marx's writings, particularly his view of the relationship between social class and the individual.[[/note]]

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Marx's influence in the Western liberal nations (what is now called the "First World") would be of a more intellectual and subtle nature. Marx is considered to be one of the founders of modern social sciences, along with Émile Durkheim and Max Weber. Unlike many other philosophers and intellectuals of his time, he insisted that social theories must be examined through a scientific method and direct on-the-ground empirical research of statistical records and figures. His philosophy of historical materialism was the first major case against the "Great Man" view of history of Kings/Emperors and Popes, and shifted attention to the largely neglected and relegated-to-a-footnote masses in history, paving the way for Annales historians such as Fernand Braudel and others. As an economist, Marx remains heterodox and outside the purview of mainstream economics who by and large reject his ideas and viewpoints. Yet Marx helped the world understand capitalism better than anyone since Adam Smith - for example, he was the first guy to develop explanations as to why the previously feudal countries of Europe became industrial economies and capitalist powerhouses [[note]]Marx's influence played a role in the more favorable reception of InternalReformist mainstream economists such as J. M. Keynes (who was an anti-Marxist) leading to many capitalist nations [[TheMoralSubstitute to accept some form of social welfare to pre-empt Communist ideas from taking root]], while Thomas Piketty in the 21st Century would make a case for progressive tax on the wealthy and checks on inherited wealth, points articulated by Marx in the Communist Manifesto. The backlash to Keynesian and the rise of neoliberal consensus, coincided with the decline and fall of the USSR, which led many to see such social welfare policies, justified as a reform and bulwark against Communism, [[YouHaveOutlivedYourUsefulness as having outlived its political utility]], leading to the rise of Third Way liberalism in the 90s that departed from Cold War Labour and Democrat commitments to welfare[/note]] welfare[[/note]]. Thanks to the influence of ''Das Kapital'', [[{{Irony}} Marx is the one responsible]] for the free market being known as capitalism. Much of what he wrote about how capitalism works actually stands up to scrutiny close to 200 years later. The study of sociology was also highly influenced by Marx's writings, particularly his view of the relationship between social class and the individual.[[/note]]\n
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