This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
{{B.D.}}: What about The Cat from Red Dwarf?
Andyzero: Hmm...has it ever been implied that Heathcliff eats mice? It's been so long I don't remember. I know he loves fish, but those are rarely depicted as being sentient. He usually steals fish from the store, anyways.
osh: Generally bad karma for a likeable protagonist cat to eat mice considering how popular mice characters are. Garfield doesn't eat mice either, but they talk. He certainly doesn't have problems eating (or at least hunting) non-talking birds.
osh: As an aside, I've noticed playing with prey seems to be a thing for orphaned cats or only domestic cats who haven't been taught by their mother. A real mouser will just go for the neck in one shot. Maybe the reputation has more to do with the kind of cat who plays with prey is also the kind of cat who is already overfed?
Kat Kit: I don't know about the 'only hunting dogs kill' thing. My pet terrier frequently catches and kills rats at least half his size and has recently worked out how to skin them.
rbloom: This whole entry reminds me of "Meet The Parents"
Jack: Greg, how come you don't like cats? Greg: I don't not like cats. I-I just— I just prefer dogs. I mean, I'm just more of a dog kind of, you know—Come home, wagging their little tails, happy to see you kind of— Jack: You need that assurance? You prefer an emotionally shallow animal? Greg: I— Jack: You see, Greg, when you yell at a dog, his tail will go between his legs and cover his genitals, his ears will go down. A dog is very easy to break, but cats make you work for their affection. They don't sell out the way dogs do. Greg: Huh.
Here is the definitive cat take-down:
http://www.ordersomewherechaos.com/rosso/simone/
Silvercatmon: "actively catch anything on their own terms if they're not a hunting dog working for their master." When I was a child, we had a small dog and he hunted. Killed two bunnies we had found. One neighbor dog, a large dog, caught a bird. Dog hunt on their own, they don't need a "master".
Citizen: A second image macro. Considering how long the other (didn't) last... =/
Seth: I'm not sure that's the best image for the job.
Guy Smiley: Jerry was "innocently depicted?" He often picked fights with Tom for no good reason and was quite the thief.
Scrounge: Does this really have to be in "Truth in television"? Does the general consensus around here really hate cats that much? I;d tend to categorize real-life cats as more "playfully mischeivous".
Ununnilium: Ugh. It shouldn't be. In real life, cats are individuals, some mean, some nice, some apathetic.
Lale: Made Of Win there, Ununnilium.
crapface who here hates the movie catsanddogs
Seth: There are websites for stuff like that, this is not one of them.
crapface: Oh
Sunder the Gold: This article should really make something of the fact that dogs are more people-oriented and cats are more independent. As the saying goes, "If you feed a dog for a day, he'll remember it for a year. If you feed a cat for a year, he'll remember it for a day." Dogs just like people more than cats, so cats seem that much less sympathetic by comparison. Cats also have a deceptively helpless and cutesy sound (the pitious meow) to help them get what they want, no matter what they want, and this comes across as two-faced. Dogs will whine too, but generally for good reason, and they bark just as often (which doesn't sound cute or helpless at all, and is actually rather grating). At least, these are my experiences.
Raposa: The real difference is that dogs are pack animals and cats are ambush hunters. Dogs work in groups. They think in groups. They're very social. Cats (except for lions) work alone. The only equivalent in the wild to a master/pet relationship they have is that of a mother cat and kittens. And with some cats, you can't tell which one they think they are. How mean or nice a cat is depends as much on upbringing as it does for dogs, but a lot of people mistake a dog's pack instincts for helpfulness. In other words, cats suffer from Loners Are Evil.
HeartBurn Kid: Would anybody mind terribly if I put this image into the article? And would it be better to add it in addition to the existing image, or replace it?
Phartman: I vote yea.
Citizen: This page needs only one picture. As the submitter of the current picture
◊, I can't exactly say I'm in favor of a replacement, but that's just my vote. My enemies are numerous. @_@
Lale: You've submitted a lot of other pictures, right, Citizen? What's one picture?
Seth: Its better than the curent one, but its still a little off.
Citizen: Lale: Yeah, I know, but since it's one of mine I almost feel obligated to give a token of my support. =P
HeartBurn Kid: Finally removed the old one; here's the image for posterity
Andyroid: Removed the Discworld entry, that's covered more by the bit under Right-Hand Cat.
Iro: In the list of examples, in the webcomic section, there is a (in my opinion) misguiding entry "Two Words: The Evil" with "The Evil" as link to sluggy freelance. But the only mean furry in that comic is bun-bun, a bunny. Or did I miss something?
- Nobody said anything, so I deleted the link to Sluggy Freelance
- Andyroid: Restoring it. "The Evil" are a pack of kittens who are literally the spawn of Satan, and tend to go on killing sprees if they're not placated with milk.
Weaver: Would "The Mean Kitty Song" count as an example or a subversion?
Pika Hikari KT: Subversion. It starts off implying Sparta's a mean bastard, but he just wanted attention. Later videos say he's getting a bit better behaved.
jketchum31: Regarding the Pokemon entry, Meowth is actually a fairly nice character, fawning over the egg of Togepi and such... when he's not being a jerk. But there are two other characters who fit and subvert the trope remarkably well, if they're cats. Mew and Mewtwo. Mew, while not evil, is callous and selfish and will play with others at the expense of... well, whatever. Up to and including kidnapping Pikachu to play and causing the near-destruction fo the symbiotic tree she lives in. Mewtwo is the villain of the first movie, decidind that humans and Pokemon need to be destroyed for his new world order, but in the straight-to-video sequel, Mewtwo selflessly sacrifices himself to protect the clones he made in the first movie. Problem is that the fandom can't seem to agree on whether they're cats or not, And while first-movie Mewtwo fits the cat stereotype, sequel Mewtwo does not (nor does baby Mewtwo in the backstory short on the DVD). Should they be included?
Pika Hikari KT: Meowth's in the middle as far as the Team Rocket trio goes. He's been pretty commanding and even scheming(thanks to the fact he can translate Pokemon language) sometimes, but when he's apart from his teammates he goes as far as helping out the enemy. Not to mention he has his own backstory to tell, one that didn't end well late in Kanto.
Mewtwo...I like to think he's a cat (especially with Mew being as adorable as a playful kitten), but it's really up in the air.
Khitty Hawk: Not sure if I should put this here, but one of my teachers told me that cats are better at recognizing human facial expressions than dogs are, so someone who dislikes cats is likely to have the cat dislike them, whereas a dog wouldn't be able to pick up on the subtle cues. Dumb Is Good?
R Taco: Removed this Discussion On The Main Page:
- We did! Contrast Everything's Cuter with Kittens.
- Whomsoever wrote the above "We did!" will have to learn that that will never suffice to excuse this trope, nothing ever will excuse this bad trope
- =T___________T=
- Whomsoever wrote the above "We did!" will have to learn that that will never suffice to excuse this trope, nothing ever will excuse this bad trope
Trouser Wearing Barbarian: So many aversions listed as "subversions" on this page. Facepalm.
Count Choculitis: Ouch. I feel you. I'm going to start changing them.
Forthur: Removed
- Sluggy Freelance has kittens which act as the prodigal sons of Satan.
Nohbody: Apologies if I just missed it, but would felinoid aliens work, here? I'm thinking in particular Larry Niven's Kzin and Wing Commander's Kilrathi.
Mysticpenguin: I don't see why not. They're cats of a sort, and the main point of them does indeed seem to be that those Cats Are Mean.
Mysticpenguin: Removed
- Let's put it this way, your beloved dog will lay down in a burning building and die with you. You're cat will run at the first realization of a fire and will bite and scratch to get the hell out of Dodge.
BritBllt: Changing this...
- H.P. Lovecraft was a cat lover, and whenever they appear in his works, they are always portrayed well.
- Subverted in H.P. Lovecraft's short story "The Cats of Ulthar." The cats of Ulthar differ from ordinary housecats in a rather disturbing way, although what they do is motivated by revenge against a deserving pair of villains rather than outright malice. The story might not have even been intended to be scary.
- I'd disagree regarding it being a subversion, in the context of the story (and, no doubt, in HPL's mind) the cats are not acting in a mean/evil manner. As the humans fail to punish the old couple, the cats of Ulthar act (at the behest of the travellers' gods) as the agents of justice. The cats are the good guys in this story.
- "The Rats in the Walls" is another good example.
- If we're talking about either a subversion of HPL's general favourable portrayal of cats, or the original trope, again, I'd have to disagree. The main use of the cats in this story initially is only as an external indicator of supernatural happenings, to indicate to both the reader and the other characters that the protagonist isn't going crazy. The only real 'bad kitty' moment of the whole story occurs towards the end regarding the behaviour of the protagonist's favourite moggie, and again, in context, it is more an external indicator of the fundamental change in the protagonist and the nature of that change that has been his misfortune, rather than an evil/mean cat thing (more the opposite really). HPL liked cats far too much to make them truly part of this trope, even the cats that might fit in, the very large and peculiar cats from Saturn, [The Dream-Quest for Unknown Kadath] only just get a mention.
- Don't forget The Dream-Quest for Unknown Kaddath in which the Cats of Ulthar help Randolph Carter on his quest multiple times and are generally portrayed as sympathetic and nice.
- Unless you happen to be a Moon Beast, almost-human or a Zoog. In general, HPL appears to be of the opinion that, as the ancestors of modern cats have chosen to associate with humanity rather than having been enslaved/domesticated by us, we should at least regard them as being on our side by choice in whatever the game really is we're all involved in playing, and give them due credit for making that choice.
- Subverted in H.P. Lovecraft's short story "The Cats of Ulthar." The cats of Ulthar differ from ordinary housecats in a rather disturbing way, although what they do is motivated by revenge against a deserving pair of villains rather than outright malice. The story might not have even been intended to be scary.
Into...
- Subverted in H.P. Lovecraft's short story "The Cats of Ulthar." The cats of Ulthar differ from ordinary housecats in a rather disturbing way, although what they do is motivated by revenge against a deserving pair of villains rather than outright malice. The story might not have even been intended to be scary. H.P. Lovecraft was a cat lover, and whenever they appear in his works, they're generally portrayed as benevolent, if still creepy and inscrutable.
Phoenix Fire: I firmly believe this page needs a picture of Greebo. Possibilities here
◊ and here
◊ as a starting point.
Because, ahem, TV TROPES IS NOT A MESSAGE BOARD!
