This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Batman Gambit launched as Batman Gambit: From YKTTW
Working Title: Batman Gambit: From YKTTW
Some Sort Of Troper: I removed this:
- Almost all of the major plot events in the Star Wars prequel trilogy are orchestrated by Darth Sidious (aka: Supremious Magnificentus Bastardous) in order to, in succession, become Chancellor of the Republic, be granted dictatorial authority, turn Anakin Skywalker to the Dark Side as his apprentice, exterminate the Jedi order, and declare himself Emperor. This gets so convoluted at times that it might be considered a Xanatos Roulette if he weren't borderline omniscient already. The Clone War itself was also a Xanatos Gambit, because he was the leader of both sides—no matter who won, he could assume control afterwards.
- To be fair, he didn't foresee many of the events, such as the Jedi finding Anakin on Tatooine or Amidala deciding to retake Naboo from the Trade Federation. As noted on The Force.Net forums, he is more of "the master of plan B", using even disruptions of his original plans to his advantage. Parodied by this flash animation
- Unless he did foresee those, too—later evidence suggests that he created Anakin using the techniques taught to him by his mentor, Darth Plagueis.
- To be fair, he didn't foresee many of the events, such as the Jedi finding Anakin on Tatooine or Amidala deciding to retake Naboo from the Trade Federation. As noted on The Force.Net forums, he is more of "the master of plan B", using even disruptions of his original plans to his advantage. Parodied by this flash animation
Because it appears to me with have what is almost exactly the guy's entry on the Xanatos Gambit page replicated here while disregarded some of the major differences between the Batman and Xanatos gambit. Now if somebody wants to clearly show when he is being Batman and when he is being Xanatos ("master of plan B") then they should put it back in with clarification. I would actually say that the way he played around with his apprentices and the clone wars are specifically Xanatos not Batman due to the Win/Win situations he gets (he always gets the strongest apprentice, he is always going to be leader of the winning side). Leading the Rebels into a trap - Batmany. Note of course, the trap fails and his attempts to turn the Skywalkers fail because he seems to go for Flaw Exploitation while misunderestimating strengths.
- choco: A lot of this stuff about Palps' manipulations seems to be either rampant speculation or way-deep into EU territory. He's a master schemer, undoubtedly, but asserting that he was behind the kidnapping of Shmi or that he played Cupid for Anakin and Padme is reallllly reaching.
Lale: How is this different from Xanatos Gambit or Xanatos Roulette?
Some Guy: Xanatos Gambit refers to a plan devised in such a way that the planner wins regardless of whether the opposition succeeds or fails. Batman Gambit refers to a plan that has a clear, singular successful outcome based on the extent of the planner's manipulative abilities. Until this trope was split off, both of these definitions were included under Xanatos Gambit. Xanatos Roulette is an extremely convoluted plan that can be an outgrowth of either gambit.
Medinoc: So, this is actually a split from Xanatos Gambit into two separate tropes?
Some Guy: Aye. It's all there in the YYKTW.
Bob: Cutting the Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha StrikerS example because it's not a Batman Gambit. It's incredibly awesome, it's just isn't a Gambit. Nanoha doesn't exploit any flaw in Quattro and she doesn't use her knowledge of Quattro to predict her actions. She just finds out where Quattro is and then shoots her. No Flaw Exploitation, no Xanatos Gambit, no Warrior Therapist, nothing. It is sheer simplicity, and it's Awesome.
- In Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha, the title character pulls off a Batman Gambit against Smug Snake Quattro that qualifies as a Crowning Moment Of Awesome: as she fights Vivio, Nanoha is searching for Quattro using her Wide Area Search power, keeping Quattro's attention tied to the fighting going on in the throne room and the areas beyond. When Nanoha finds Quattro, she uses her binding powers to tie up Vivio, and then uses the sensor that found her as a targeting system for her fully-powered Divine Buster. Quattro's expression as she realizes what Nanoha is about to do is nothing less than priceless.
KJMackley:Strangely enough, none of the Batman examples are singularly Batman Gambits, they are about people taking control of his contigency files because of his Crazy-Prepared nature, not actual plans that he himself enacts. I replaced all of those with something that is more consistent with the trope.
Nattering before editing: in Saint Seiya Hades' Saga, this could be said about Athena's solution: volunteer to death, awake your eighth sense, deal with the villain, play the Barrier Girl, defeat the villain once full blown.
KJMackley: Cut this from the description because it isn't a gambit, just a badass moment.
Overlord example edited: the cryptic scene was referring to an entirely different entity from the expension-pack. It had me fooled though.
Wouldn't Iago from "Othello" be an example?
Sotanaht The entire paragraph explaining which situation goes to which trope belongs somewhere else. It is explaining too many tropes to exist only on this page. I am thinking we need an index with something like this paragraph on it, and each of the related tropes listed.
Vandalite Why isn't Watchmen (The movie or the comic) listed? The bad guy in this story pulls one off beautifully by manipulating all the main characters into not realizing what was about to happen until about thirty minutes too late, or am I missing the critical difference between a Xanatos and Batman gambit? Seriously, things could have derailed for the bad guy (sorry, I can't remember his name right now) if even one of the characters clued in or didn't fall for the traps (physical or psychological) laid out for the characters. At what point did the main plan fail (hence defining it as a Xanatos)
Daibhid C: I don't understand what this refers to:
- Lord Rust, in Jingo, illustrates how spectularly this can go wrong.
