Discussion History Main / Griefer

It is at this point I feel the need to direct you to how frailties actually work. Dzarûmazh is \\\'\\\'guaranteed\\\'\\\', no matter which rules you use, to possess at least one major frailty. According to core, major taboos are \\\"substantial impediments to important aspects of daily life, and that cannot easily be avoided in the course of a normal day\\\" and major banes are \\\"typically much more common substances or circumstances, and will rapidly prove fatal to the unfortunate character who is exposed to them.\\\" We\\\'re talking about things that will drain Willpower to stop doing or deal lethal damage to face. If the Storyteller is playing by the RAW at all, a major frailty is not going to be a minor threat.

Every definition I\\\'ve found says a firearm is a \\\"portable gun.\\\" That means pistols, shotguns, and other ranged weapons you can outfit a person with. Not tanks. Not nukes. What kind of definition are you using where \\\'\\\'bombs\\\'\\\' count as firearms, anyway?

And you, meanwhile, are making assumptions that are not even close to reasonable for a group attempting to play the game as a way of telling a story. You\\\'re making assumptions that are \\\'\\\'contradicted by the rules themselves.\\\'\\\' Look at the fucking Allies Merit. \\\"The kinds of requests made of people in an organization typically have to relate to their sphere of influence.\\\" \\\"[…] a roll of Manipulation+Persuasion+Allies could determine how many police answer your character\\\'s call for help, or how many longshoremen turn up when you need a show of force (one per success rolled).\\\" The character that has access to the Merit is \\\'\\\'Dorian Hargrave.\\\'\\\' Dorian Hargrave is, as far as the mortal world knows, a successful and somewhat eccentric businessman. Allies (innumerable) doesn\\\'t mean Allies 6+. It means he\\\'s got Allies in several places. Allies (Businessmen) 5 isn\\\'t going to help him raise an army. He might be able to pay for a mercenary team or something similar, or he might be able to call in a few favors from the local police, but that\\\'s almost assuredly facing him on \\\'\\\'his\\\'\\\' terms, which will undoubtedly have better odds for him than \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' terms. And, oh no, he might be able to call in *gasp* \\\'\\\'five or six mortal cops\\\'\\\' if he happens to have Allies (Police) 5! Whatever will your \\\'\\\'changeling characters \\\'\\\'\\\'do?\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

I\\\'m well aware of the downside, but Defense is not rolled. It\\\'s a flat subtraction from opposing non-Firearms-based attacks. Soak rolls aren\\\'t the norm anymore. Sorry, what were you saying about house rules?

-10 \\\'\\\'on top of Armor and Defense\\\'\\\' which you would be an idiot to \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' be using against the giant dragon. And you can Dodge. And there are a number of kith blessings that enhance your Dodge. You seem to be under the impression that you\\\'re expected to just walk up to him and fight him completely on his terms, in which case you deserve whatever ass-kicking you receive.

As for Initiative: Catch him by surprise or get to superhuman levels of Composure yourself. You can do that. Again, you seem to be forgetting that these are \\\'\\\'changelings\\\'\\\' that will in all likelihood be dealing with Dzarly. You can raise your stats up to [Wyrd]. If you\\\'re a Beast you can actually buff that Composure+Wyrd roll with Glamour. Alternately, take advantage of the many, many, \\\'\\\'many\\\'\\\' methods of boosting your Initiative score available to you. (the Airtouched kith blessing immediately comes to mind, as do the various benefits Hedgespun gear can provide.)

You are \\\'\\\'supernatural beings\\\'\\\' who get a \\\'\\\'stealth powerset\\\'\\\' with a \\\'\\\'universal affinity cost-break.\\\'\\\' I think you can manage sneaking around. And while we\\\'re at it, \\\'\\\'Contracts of Hearth.\\\'\\\' An entire universal-affinity Contract that lets you screw around with the dice. Dice-tweaks like 8-Again for one roll, +4 for one roll, a free success for one roll, or incurring a -2 penalty on your foes next action. And none of these powers are rolled to use.

You\\\'re \\\'\\\'fairies.\\\'\\\' Play to your strengths and it\\\'ll be simple. Take advantage of your surroundings, attack in waves, use whatever bonuses and penalties you can get your hands on. Hell, try to catch him while he\\\'s Dorian Hargrave, even. Reducing the entire conflict to pure combat with nothing but his true form assumes that your Storyteller is going to be a powergaming jackass. Your complaint about Unholy Splendor in particular seems to boil down to \\\"what if my Storyteller is a dick?\\\"

It is at this point I feel the need to direct you to how frailties actually work. Dzarûmazh is \\\'\\\'guaranteed\\\'\\\', no matter which rules you use, to possess at least one major frailty. According to core, major taboos are \\\"substantial impediments to important aspects of daily life, and that cannot easily be avoided in the course of a normal day\\\" and major banes are \\\"typically much more common substances or circumstances, and will rapidly prove fatal to the unfortunate character who is exposed to them.\\\" We\\\'re talking about things that will drain Willpower to stop doing or deal lethal damage to face. If the Storyteller is playing by the RAW at all, a major frailty is not going to be a minor threat.

Every definition I\\\'ve found says a firearm is a \\\"portable gun.\\\" That means pistols, shotguns, and other ranged weapons you can outfit a person with. Not tanks. Not nukes. What kind of definition are you using where \\\'\\\'bombs\\\'\\\' count as firearms, anyway?

And you, meanwhile, are making assumptions that are not even close to reasonable for a group attempting to play the game as a way of telling a story. You\\\'re making assumptions that are \\\'\\\'contradicted by the rules themselves.\\\'\\\' Look at the fucking Allies Merit. \\\"The kinds of requests made of people in an organization typically have to relate to their sphere of influence.\\\" \\\"[…] a roll of Manipulation+Persuasion+Allies could determine how many police answer your character\\\'s call for help, or how many longshoremen turn up when you need a show of force (one per success rolled).\\\" The character that has access to the Merit is \\\'\\\'Dorian Hargrave.\\\'\\\' Dorian Hargrave is, as far as the mortal world knows, a successful and somewhat eccentric businessman. Allies (innumerable) doesn\\\'t mean Allies 6+. It means he\\\'s got Allies in several places. Allies (Businessmen) 5 isn\\\'t going to help him raise an army. He might be able to pay for a mercenary team or something similar, or he might be able to call in a few favors from the local police, but that\\\'s almost assuredly facing him on \\\'\\\'his\\\'\\\' terms, which will undoubtedly have better odds for him than \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' terms. And, oh no, he might be able to call in *gasp* \\\'\\\'five or six mortal cops\\\'\\\' if he happens to have Allies (Police) 5! Whatever will your \\\'\\\'changeling characters \\\'\\\'\\\'do?\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

I\\\'m well aware of the downside, but Defense is not rolled. It\\\'s a flat subtraction from opposing non-Firearms-based attacks. Soak rolls aren\\\'t the norm anymore. Sorry, what were you saying about house rules?

-10 \\\'\\\'on top of Armor and Defense\\\'\\\' which you would be an idiot to \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' be using against the giant dragon. And you can Dodge. And there are a number of kith blessings that enhance your Dodge. You seem to be under the impression that you\\\'re expected to just walk up to him and fight him completely on his terms, in which case you deserve whatever ass-kicking you receive.

As for Initiative: Catch him by surprise or get to superhuman levels of Composure yourself. You can do that. Again, you seem to be forgetting that these are \\\'\\\'changelings\\\'\\\' that will in all likelihood be dealing with Dzarly. You can raise your stats up to [Wyrd]. If you\\\'re a Beast you can actually buff that Composure+Wyrd roll with Glamour.

You are \\\'\\\'supernatural beings\\\'\\\' who get a \\\'\\\'stealth powerset\\\'\\\' with a \\\'\\\'universal affinity cost-break.\\\'\\\' I think you can manage sneaking around. And while we\\\'re at it, \\\'\\\'Contracts of Hearth.\\\'\\\' An entire universal-affinity Contract that lets you screw around with the dice. Dice-tweaks like 8-Again for one roll, +4 for one roll, a free success for one roll, or incurring a -2 penalty on your foes next action. And none of these powers are rolled to use.

You\\\'re \\\'\\\'fairies.\\\'\\\' Play to your strengths and it\\\'ll be simple. Take advantage of your surroundings, attack in waves, use whatever bonuses and penalties you can get your hands on. Hell, try to catch him while he\\\'s Dorian Hargrave, even. Reducing the entire conflict to pure combat with nothing but his true form assumes that your Storyteller is going to be a powergaming jackass. Your complaint about Unholy Splendor in particular seems to boil down to \\\"what if my Storyteller is a dick?\\\"

It is at this point I feel the need to direct you to how frailties actually work. Dzarûmazh is \\\'\\\'guaranteed\\\'\\\', no matter which rules you use, to possess at least one major frailty. According to core, major taboos are \\\"substantial impediments to important aspects of daily life, and that cannot easily be avoided in the course of a normal day\\\" and major banes are \\\"typically much more common substances or circumstances, and will rapidly prove fatal to the unfortunate character who is exposed to them.\\\" We\\\'re talking about things that will drain Willpower to stop doing or deal lethal damage to face. If the Storyteller is playing by the RAW at all, a major frailty is not going to be a minor threat.

Every definition I\\\'ve found says a firearm is a \\\"portable gun.\\\" That means pistols, shotguns, and other ranged weapons you can outfit a person with. Not tanks. Not nukes. What kind of definition are you using where \\\'\\\'bombs\\\'\\\' count as firearms, anyway?

And you, meanwhile, are making assumptions that are not even close to reasonable for a group attempting to play the game as a way of telling a story. You\\\'re making assumptions that are \\\'\\\'contradicted by the rules themselves.\\\'\\\' Look at the fucking Allies Merit. \\\"The kinds of requests made of people in an organization typically have to relate to their sphere of influence.\\\" \\\"[…] a roll of Manipulation+Persuasion+Allies could determine how many police answer your character\\\'s call for help, or how many longshoremen turn up when you need a show of force (one per success rolled).\\\" The character that has access to the Merit is \\\'\\\'Dorian Hargrave.\\\'\\\' Dorian Hargrave is, as far as the mortal world knows, a successful and somewhat eccentric businessman. Allies (innumerable) doesn\\\'t mean Allies 6+. It means he\\\'s got Allies in several places. Allies (Businessmen) 5 isn\\\'t going to help him raise an army. He might be able to pay for a mercenary team or something similar, or he might be able to call in a few favors from the local police, but that\\\'s almost assuredly facing him on \\\'\\\'his\\\'\\\' terms, which will undoubtedly have better odds for him than \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' terms. And, oh no, he might be able to call in *gasp* \\\'\\\'five or six mortal cops\\\'\\\' if he happens to have Allies (Police) 5! Whatever will your \\\'\\\'changeling characters \\\'\\\'\\\'do?\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

I\\\'m well aware of the downside, but Defense is not rolled. It\\\'s a flat subtraction from opposing non-Firearms-based attacks. Soak rolls aren\\\'t the norm anymore. Sorry, what were you saying about house rules?

-10 \\\'\\\'on top of Armor and Defense\\\'\\\' which you would be an idiot to \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' be using against the giant dragon. And you can Dodge. And there are a number of kith blessings that enhance your Dodge. You seem to be under the impression that you\\\'re expected to just walk up to him and fight him completely on his terms, in which case you deserve whatever ass-kicking you receive.

As for Initiative: Catch him by surprise or get to superhuman levels of Composure yourself. You can do that. Again, you seem to be forgetting that these are \\\'\\\'changelings\\\'\\\' that will in all likelihood be dealing with Dzarly. You can raise your stats up to [Wyrd]. If you\\\'re a Beast you can actually buff that Composure+Wyrd roll with Glamour.

You are \\\'\\\'supernatural beings\\\'\\\' who get a \\\'\\\'stealth powerset\\\'\\\' with a \\\'\\\'universal affinity cost-break.\\\'\\\' I think you can manage sneaking around. And while we\\\'re at it, \\\'\\\'Contracts of Hearth.\\\'\\\' An entire universal-affinity Contract that lets you screw around with the dice. Dice-tweaks like 8-Again for one roll, +4 for one roll, a free success for one roll, or incurring a -2 penalty on your foes next action. And none of these powers are rolled to use.

You\\\'re \\\'\\\'fairies.\\\'\\\' Play to your strengths and it\\\'ll be simple. Take advantage of your surroundings, attack in waves, use whatever bonuses and penalties you can get your hands on. Hell, try to catch him while he\\\'s Dorian Hargrave, even. Reducing the entire conflict to pure combat with nothing but his true form assumes that your Storyteller is going to be a powergaming jackass. Your complaint about Unholy Splendor in particular seems to boil down to \\\"what if my Storyteller is a dick?\\\"

It is at this point I feel the need to direct you to how frailties actually work. Dzarûmazh is \\\'\\\'guaranteed\\\'\\\', no matter which rules you use, to possess at least one major frailty. According to core, major taboos are \\\"substantial impediments to important aspects of daily life, and that cannot easily be avoided in the course of a normal day\\\" and major banes are \\\"typically much more common substances or circumstances, and will rapidly prove fatal to the unfortunate character who is exposed to them.\\\" We\\\'re talking about things that will drain Willpower to stop doing or deal lethal damage to face. If the Storyteller is playing by the RAW at all, a major frailty is not going to be a minor threat.

Every definition I\\\'ve found says a firearm is a \\\"portable gun.\\\" That means pistols, shotguns, and other ranged weapons you can outfit a person with. Not tanks. Not nukes. What kind of definition are you using where \\\'\\\'bombs\\\'\\\' count as firearms, anyway?

And you, meanwhile, are making assumptions that are not even close to reasonable for a group attempting to play the game as a way of telling a story. You\\\'re making assumptions that are \\\'\\\'contradicted by the rules themselves.\\\'\\\' Look at the fucking Allies Merit. \\\"The kinds of requests made of people in an organization typically have to relate to their sphere of influence.\\\" \\\"[…] a roll of Manipulation+Persuasion+Allies could determine how many police answer your character\\\'s call for help, or how many longshoremen turn up when you need a show of force (one per success rolled).\\\" The character that has access to the Merit is \\\'\\\'Dorian Hargrave.\\\'\\\' Dorian Hargrave is, as far as the mortal world knows, a successful and somewhat eccentric businessman. Allies (innumerable) doesn\\\'t mean Allies 6+. It means he\\\'s got Allies in several places. Allies (Businessmen) 5 isn\\\'t going to help him raise an army. He might be able to pay for a mercenary team or something similar, or he might be able to call in a few favors from the local police, but that\\\'s almost assuredly facing him on \\\'\\\'his\\\'\\\' terms, which will undoubtedly have better odds for him than \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' terms. And, oh no, he might be able to call in *gasp* \\\'\\\'five or six mortal cops\\\'\\\' if he happens to have Allies (Police) 5! Whatever will your \\\'\\\'changeling characters \\\'\\\'\\\'do?\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

I\\\'m well aware of the downside, but Defense is not rolled. It\\\'s a flat subtraction from opposing non-Firearms-based attacks. Soak rolls aren\\\'t the norm anymore. Sorry, what were you saying about house rules?

-10 \\\'\\\'on top of Armor and Defense\\\'\\\' which you would be an idiot to \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' be using against the giant dragon. And you can Dodge. And there are a number of kith blessings that enhance your Dodge. You seem to be under the impression that you\\\'re expected to just walk up to him and fight him completely on his terms, in which case you deserve whatever ass-kicking you receive.

As for Initiative: Catch him by surprise or get to superhuman levels of Composure yourself. You can do that. Again, you seem to be forgetting that these are \\\'\\\'changelings\\\'\\\' that will in all likelihood be dealing with Dzarly. You can raise your stats up to [Wyrd]. If you\\\'re a Beast you can actually buff that Compoosure+Wyrd roll with Glamour.

You are \\\'\\\'supernatural beings\\\'\\\' who get a \\\'\\\'stealth powerset\\\'\\\' with a \\\'\\\'universal affinity cost-break.\\\'\\\' I think you can manage sneaking around. And while we\\\'re at it, \\\'\\\'Contracts of Hearth.\\\'\\\' An entire universal-affinity Contract that lets you screw around with the dice. Dice-tweaks like 8-Again for one roll, +4 for one roll, a free success for one roll, or incurring a -2 penalty on your foes next action. And none of these powers are rolled to use.

You\\\'re \\\'\\\'fairies.\\\'\\\' Play to your strengths and it\\\'ll be simple. Take advantage of your surroundings, attack in waves, use whatever bonuses and penalties you can get your hands on. Hell, try to catch him while he\\\'s Dorian Hargrave, even. Reducing the entire conflict to pure combat with nothing but his true form assumes that your Storyteller is going to be a powergaming jackass. Your complaint about Unholy Splendor in particular seems to boil down to \\\"what if my Storyteller is a dick?\\\"

It is at this point I feel the need to direct you to how frailties actually work. Dzarûmazh is \\\'\\\'guaranteed\\\'\\\', no matter which rules you use, to possess at least one major frailty. According to core, major taboos are \\\"substantial impediments to important aspects of daily life, and that cannot easily be avoided in the course of a normal day\\\" and major banes are \\\"typically much more common substances or circumstances, and will rapidly prove fatal to the unfortunate character who is exposed to them.\\\" We\\\'re talking about things that will drain Willpower to stop doing or deal lethal damage to face. If the Storyteller is playing by the RAW at all, a major frailty is not going to be a minor threat.

Every definition I\\\'ve found says a firearm is a \\\"portable gun.\\\" That means pistols, shotguns, and other ranged weapons you can outfit a person with. Not tanks. Not nukes. What kind of definition are you using where \\\'\\\'bombs\\\'\\\' count as firearms, anyway?

And you, meanwhile, are making assumptions that are not even close to reasonable for a group attempting to play the game as a way of telling a story. You\\\'re making assumptions that are \\\'\\\'contradicted by the rules themselves.\\\'\\\' Look at the fucking Allies Merit. \\\"The kinds of requests made of people in an organization typically have to relate to their sphere of influence.\\\" \\\"[…] a roll of Manipulation+Persuasion+Allies could determine how many police answer your character\\\'s call for help, or how many longshoremen turn up when you need a show of force (one per success rolled).\\\" The character that has access to the Merit is \\\'\\\'Dorian Hargrave.\\\'\\\' Dorian Hargrave is, as far as the mortal world knows, a successful and somewhat eccentric businessman. Allies (innumerable) doesn\\\'t mean Allies 6+. It means he\\\'s got Allies in several places. Allies (Businessmen) 5 isn\\\'t going to help him raise an army. He might be able to pay for a mercenary team or something similar, or he might be able to call in a few favors from the local police, but that\\\'s almost assuredly facing him on \\\'\\\'his\\\'\\\' terms, which will undoubtedly have better odds for him than \\\'\\\'your\\\'\\\' terms. And, oh no, he might be able to call in *gasp* \\\'\\\'five or six mortal cops\\\'\\\' if he happens to have Allies (Police) 5! Whatever will your \\\'\\\'changeling characters \\\'\\\'\\\'do?\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

I\\\'m well aware of the downside, but Defense is not rolled. It\\\'s a flat subtraction from opposing non-Firearms-based attacks. Soak rolls aren\\\'t the norm anymore. Sorry, what were you saying about house rules?

-10 \\\'\\\'on top of Armor and Defense\\\'\\\' which you would be an idiot to \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' be using against the giant dragon. And you can Dodge. And there are a number of kith blessings that enhance your Dodge. You seem to be under the impression that you\\\'re expected to just walk up to him and fight him completely on his terms, in which case you deserve whatever ass-kicking you receive.

As for Initiative: Catch him by surprise or get to superhuman levels of Composure yourself. You can do that. Again, you seem to be forgetting that these are \\\'\\\'changelings\\\'\\\' that will in all likelihood be dealing with Dzarly. You are \\\'\\\'supernatural beings\\\'\\\' who get a \\\'\\\'stealth powerset\\\'\\\' with a \\\'\\\'universal affinity cost-break.\\\'\\\' I think you can manage sneaking around.

And while we\\\'re at it, \\\'\\\'Contracts of Hearth.\\\'\\\' An entire universal-affinity Contract that lets you screw around with the dice. Dice-tweaks like 8-Again for one roll, +4 for one roll, a free success for one roll, or incurring a -2 penalty on your foes next action. And none of these powers are rolled to use.

You\\\'re \\\'\\\'fairies.\\\'\\\' Play to your strengths and it\\\'ll be simple. Take advantage of your surroundings, attack in waves, use whatever bonuses and penalties you can get your hands on. Hell, try to catch him while he\\\'s Dorian Hargrave, even. Reducing the entire conflict to pure combat with nothing but his true form assumes that your Storyteller is going to be a powergaming jackass. Your complaint about Unholy Splendor in particular seems to boil down to \\\"what if my Storyteller is a dick?\\\"