[038]
berr
Current Version
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Cease the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to the proposed [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Cease the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to the proposed [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Discourage the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to the proposed [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Discourage the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to the proposed [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to the proposed [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to the proposed [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so:
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})...
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
or so:
This troper (Tropers/{{berr}})...
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) or this troper (Tropers/{{berr}}) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UrExample how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redlinked redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' that do not fulfill the \\\'\\\'newly stated purpose\\\'\\\' of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' in the forums where appropriate (like in this very post).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that most tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.\\\\\\\\
How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that most tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know what the expression means, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because-]...
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\'\\\'I think you got the wrong guy.\\\'\\\'
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> -- I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> -- I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.[[hottip:*:(I say that because some people can be [[SuffersNewbiesPoorly really snarky]] on the forums and reply to posts like this with a \\\"if people like you would shut up\\\" or [[LowestCommonDenominator \\\"TL;DR.\\\"]])]]
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet [[{{YKTTW}} orange linked]], so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like TT, JBM, \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' the forums (like in this very post above).
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Polite expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> I think bl abla bla. What do you think?
--> I think you got the wrong guy.
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where posts are identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively, or in the namespaces, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where each post is auto-identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively or in wiki mode, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:*:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where each post is auto-identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively or in wiki mode, because:]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:**:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where each post is auto-identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively or in wiki mode, because:]]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'[[hottip:**:\\\\\\\\
\\\"I\\\", on the other hand, looks fine on forums where each post is auto-identified, but not if it\\\'s used excessively or in wiki mode, because:]]...\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedMessages trope page for This Troper]] [[StockPhrases as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for This Troper as a]] [[StockPhrases stock phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for This Troper as a]] [[StockPhrases stock phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
* We can Archive this and other discussions on the issue.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of \\\"this troper\\\" (non- camel case) in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a direct [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it),
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] would become the [[PredefinedExpression trope page for \\\"This Troper\\\" as a phrase]];
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\" i.e. \\\"subjective\\\" tense, and \\\"not\\\" the subject of a sentence.) -]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors\\\'\\\' in areas like JBM, forums (like in this very post) etc.\\\'\\\'
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, or even \\\'\\\'on\\\'\\\' the forums (right here, for instance) hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' gotta be \\\'\\\'[[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]]!\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' [[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' [[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
* [- Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
* [- Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document)-]
* [- Or in contexts where it is colloquial and JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Or if you want, I can [[TakeItToTheForums take this to the forums]] as a proposal, but only if I can get some feedback here so it doesn\\\'t come across as one jerkoff\\\'s opinion out of the blue.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' [[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-* Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
[-* Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document) or JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, hence the use of [[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]] (berr) instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' [[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-* Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
[-* Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document) or JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Changed line(s) 2 from:
n
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \'\'not\'\' use \
to:
* We can tell that a majority of tropers do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' use \\\"I\\\" or their handle.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, hence the use of [[{{berr}} This troper]] instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' [[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-* Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
[-* Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document) or JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
* How? Because a lot of pages would look \\\'\\\'terrible\\\'\\\' if we followed that advice, and most people do not, because:
\\\'\\\'\\\'a.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because non-potholed use of Tropers/{{berr}} makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, e.g. outside of forums, hence the use of [[{{berr}} This troper]] instead. \\\'\\\'That\\\'s\\\'\\\' [[UnbuiltTrope how it originated]].\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'b.\\\'\\\'\\\' Because there is [[EurekaMoment no grammatical tradition of distinguishing \\\"I\\\" and \\\"I\\\"]] in paragraph mode, e.g. it makes no sense grammatically on a collaborative text, and looks like bad writing on a text by a single author.
--> \\\"I think bl abla bla. What do you think?\\\"
--> \\\"I think you got the wrong guy.\\\"
--> \\\"For me, I don\\\'t know.\\\" Justin looked pensive.
\\\'\\\'\\\'c.\\\'\\\'\\\' \\\'\\\'Even in segregated thread mode such as forums\\\'\\\', excessive use of the written \\\"I\\\" comes across as [[ItsAllAboutMe hostile and impolite]]. \\\"Well I think...\\\" even if it wasn\\\'t meant that way. This is simply an observation.\\\\\\\\
\\\'\\\'\\\'d.\\\'\\\'\\\' Formal expressions were created to avoid points a, b, and c. (e.g. \\\"the people assembled here\\\" \\\"my fellow troper\\\" in place of \\\"you\\\"). That is why people use them. The reason why Congressmen say \\\"the senator\\\" is not \\\'\\\'only\\\'\\\' because they\\\'re pompous, but because the collected speeches and such form a collaborative transcript. Originally, these debates (think Plato\\\'s \\\'\\\'Dialogues\\\'\\\') were intended to serve the \\\'\\\'exact same purpose\\\'\\\' [[FridgeBrilliance as a wiki]] -- a coherent narrative with multiple authors.
Ergo, the solution I suggest is this, which we could call the [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]]:
\\\'\\\'\\\'1. Ban the use of ThisTroper as a [=WikiWord=] expression.\\\'\\\'\\\'
* I.e. blank this page and turn it into a redirect to a separate page explaining all this (see below)
\\\'\\\'\\\'2. Remain [[TrueNeutral explicitly neutral]] on the use of this troper in contexts where first person is appropriate:\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\\\\\\
[-* Either \\\'\\\'idiomatic\\\'\\\' (generic or not strictly anecdotal; similar to \\\"one does not\\\")-]
[-* Or explicit (Troper Tales, etc.) due to legibility of the entire page (see above for how most people construe the phrase \\\"I\\\" in a document) or JustForFun.-]
\\\'\\\'\\\'3. \\\'\\\'Encourage\\\'\\\' the use of [[Tropers/{{Berr}} This Troper]] as an indirect pothole as its intended purpose\\\'\\\'\\\'
linking to the troper\\\'s contributor page (if they have one),
Like so:
[[Tropers/{{berr}} This troper]]
and deprecate any and all other \\\'\\\'\\\'potholes\\\'\\\'\\\' using \\\"this troper\\\", except for the newly stated purpose of identifying \\\'\\\'known contributors in areas like JBM etc.\\\'\\\').
This will have the \\\'\\\'added benefit\\\'\\\' of preventing misuse, because This Troper will become a phrase and not a trope,
[[FridgeBrilliance and usage as a pothole would be passively reserved to people who care enough to create a Troper page for themselves.]]
This would not be elitist since unknown contributors would still be able to use it (not as a link) in place of \\\"I\\\" where appropriate (see point 2. above)
We should also create a page entitled [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] (i.e. \\\"this troper means you\\\") to explain to people who don\\\'t know where the expression originated, since this page would no longer exist,
* Keep ThisTroper redlinked (or better yet orange linked, so people know [[HouseOfLeaves something\\\'s up]], and click on it)
* And replace the existing page with a (redlinked or orange-linked) redirect to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of ME]].
* and liberally link [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]] to [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] explaining to them where and when \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' to use it.
* The text on the existing page would be transferred to the proposed [[{{Trope}} This Troper Is You]], and [[{{Trope}} Three Rules Of Me]] would consist of the proposed compromise laid out above.
What do you guys think? If this is a possible compromise, seeing as how it seems to fit in with what is and is not currently within the pale of acceptable conduct, and would make both sides happy (I think) I\\\'d be willing to volunteer to create draft versions of two pages like the ones mentioned above, for others to edit.
Changed line(s) 7 from:
n
... you say \
to:
... you say \\\"I can see places where you changed the word used to keep the meaning in tact, too. For example, changing tsukuru/つくる (\\\"to form\\\") into \\\"to pool\\\" when Chizu starts crying.\\\" And I would very much like to see that in context. Could you take a picture of that page? Or at least quote a couple of sentences (in the original Japanese, naturally) and tell me where this is supposed to be in the novels (volume and page number)?
Again, I\\\'m trying not to be too confrontational about this, but...
Again, I\\\'m trying not to be too confrontational about this, but...
