Dragon Age

What, you don't like waiting eight real-world hours to receive a slice of text long after you've forgotten your original choice? Or, indeed, the situation to begin with? My only hope is that the next game expands on the idea by introducing optional time-skipping microtransactions.

To tell you the truth, I did enjoy the war table a lot more after I modded the game to make all times 0:00:00 (yes, I'm a dirty cheat, but if it makes you feel better I deliberately avoided all the generic collect-herbs missions after I did it). There's a lot of surprising versatility in it and the outcomes you can get during missions, and I did start to like it after that. Still wouldn't really mind it not being in the next game, though.

edited 3rd Feb '18 9:07:58 AM by Lavaeolus

The War Table was a cool idea poorly executed, basically.

Best way to fix the War Table would be removing the real-time factor and make missions cost Power. Then make all War Table quest have good loot. Either a good schematic, or a piece of equipment you would want to equip if you're in the right level range, or a rare rune. Something more powerful that anything you could find in the field, anyway.

That way you create a gameplay loop (do in-person quests to gain power, spend it in the War Table to get rewards) that rewards playing the game as intended (do things in the zones for a while, get back to headquarters for war-tabling / crafting / chatting with companions). Also that way you give Power a reason for existing.

I remember playing through the game the first time with normal War Table, it was a torture. I'd be out there, doing things that interested me, I'd get a message that a War Table mission had been completed and I'd be like "What do I do? Do I suffer through a couple loading screen so that I can immediately start another mission? But I'm in the middle of something! But if I don't do it right now, I'm wasting precious time that could be used to advance other War Table missions. Also, what was this mission even about? Did I make the right choice? What choice did I make?".

God, it's one of the worst-designed systems I've ever seen.

edited 5th Feb '18 1:44:50 AM by Cozzer

They could have even just put a table with a raven at your base camps where you could interact with the War Table in the field. You wouldn't be able to spend Upgrade points maybe, but you could just send Ravens to your advisors about what to do. Brilliant, right?

My only issue with War Table Quests costing Power means that there'd have to be an infinite source of Power somewhere or everything would have to be calculated perfectly so players could never run into an Unwinable situation because they did missions 'in the wrong order' or spent their Power without realizing they'd fucked something.

The positive thing about the wartable is that it allowed them to shove the consequences of many choices into a framework where all they had to do was come up with the plain text to describe the outcome.

The problem with choices is the more you create an exponentially amount of combinations are created. Having all choices be acknowledged in-gameplay would thus require additional voice work and such increase the production cost. The war table could cover these possibilities in an economically reasonable way.

You guys basically summed up my issue with the war table. Personally I'd go further than Ink Dagger and make it a menu in game, so you don't need to do any traveling back at all. My biggest with the game experience of Inquisition (and Andromeda) is the needless travel. I think eliminating that would vastly improve both games.

Well, you might just make it so that if you do all sidequests, you get more Power than you'd need to do all the War Table quests (the excess Power can then be used to do the repeatable resource-gathering WT quests). I would also unlock new zones and new parts of the main quest depending on the total Power you acquired since the beginning, with no need to expend it.

Making the War Table available from Inquisition camps in the field would go a long way to improve it, too.

edited 5th Feb '18 2:56:51 AM by Cozzer

That was actually an explicit point of the War Table in the first place.

I wouldn't move it to a menu. It'd remove some versimilitude of the game. I mean, sure, I could totally move War Table, Crafting, Party Load Out, Skyhold Decorations, and a bunch of other things to the main menu, but it doesn't feel right to do that. Too much clutter there and it just doesn't give the stronger sense of 'I have to communicate with my advisors to do a thing or go to a crafting bench to make armor'. Allowing the War Table to be accessed by a map and raven at your camp would remove Load Times entirely (maybe one fast travel load screen or just walking to the closest camp when there are dozens in an area) and its still reasonable in-universe since the Inqusitor would logically spend weeks or maybe even months away from Skyhold during the story.

Plus, it does also subtly fill the player in on how their organization works in that they communicate via ravens, which might not be obvious the first go around. I'm always down for gameplay informing and evolving from world building.

For the power cost, I wouldn't have it as "spending" - more you have to have power as a THRESHOLD for certain missions to be doable. And then have any that cost you power have a thematic reason for doing so (A mission that cashes in a favour, for example). So, similar to how XCOM does the Covert Ops in WOTC - it would also make more sense in how you recruit the Agents - actually have them as deployable "Pieces" with assets / pros / cons.

If you want a mini game, make it a mini game! Have territories you assign agents to, or soldiers, to show how your influence is impacting. So, you have your troops in Orlais it reveals certain quest types but maybe locks others off until you move there... and also influences the types of NPCS you could interact with. But that's a whole layer of depth.

Evil Genius did it well with the Agents you deployed on the global map and the duration. If you had "pieces" you could move around but had to purchase, like a strategy game, then it'd make sense - you want a regular supply of crafting materials then deploy your army to a mining area. But then that army isn't protecting a region in Orlais and now you get events (Not just plot cards, but events) saying Venatorii have cropped up there! That means a temporary reduction of your power AND more Venatori showing up on missions in Orlais.

That'd give it meaning and make you feel like you're managing a larger group.

edited 5th Feb '18 3:52:14 AM by JerekLaz

That's a good point. The loading times are certainly the biggest issue.

That's the entire point of the requisition table. Infinite Power.

<completes inconsequential War Table mission>

UNLIMITEDDD POWAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

Grinding for Power...through the Requisition Table?

I struggle to think of something I’d hate more.

edited 5th Feb '18 8:12:44 AM by KarkatTheDalek

Wasn't the war table supposed to be controllable by a phone app? It looked like it should have been.

edited 5th Feb '18 11:38:26 AM by Unsung

Dragon Age: Origins Ultimate Edition is $6 on Steam.

Agreed. Also, the logistics of that 'Power' would fall apart quickly.

"Sir, we don't have the resources to help Kirkwall in their siege."

"Ok, let me go make more tents and lanterns."

edited 5th Feb '18 11:48:37 AM by InkDagger

Are you kidding? That makes perfect sense. Armies live and die on their supplies.

Except for the part about the Inquisitor being the one to personally collect all the materials, of course.

edited 5th Feb '18 12:05:51 PM by Discar

Amateurs study strategy, professionals study logistics.

Wait, if you can get the DA games on Steam, why does Origin exist?

Wait, Origins is on Steam but not DA 2? Extra confused now.

edited 5th Feb '18 12:58:25 PM by Nikkolas

It's only the first game as far as I know.

You can only get the games that aren't online-enabled (anything after DA 2 and ME 3). I think ME 1 was on there from before Origin was a thing, and DAO was added later.

edited 5th Feb '18 12:59:07 PM by Unsung

Dragon Age II used to be on Steam, but was removed. Origin came out on 3 June 2011 (a bit after II's release). DA2 got pulled after Legacy came out because you bought it through the game rather than through the Steam store. After that, EA went further in on Origin and made it pretty much mandatory for their games. DA2 can be played without an Origin account if you buy it physically, but no such luck for Inquisition or ME3.

edited 5th Feb '18 1:30:45 PM by Lavaeolus

"Wait, if you can get the DA games on Steam, why does Origin exist?"

EA only releases the full game with all DLC, because Valve wants $$$ for DLC released for a game. So, you won't see DA:O on Steam, only DA:O Ultimate Edition (which already has all the DLC.)

Origins-sans-DLC is actually on Steam, but it's regarded as a separate game than the Ultimate Edition. EA was never really interested in delving in or accepting the baggage that's supposed to come with Steam. E.g. the first game has achievements, but they're tied into your BioWare account rather than Steam; the DLC isn't integrated into Valve's system; buying it on Steam gives you a CD-key that you're meant to use on a Bio Ware account; etc. EA put their games up on Steam, but they treated that as no different from putting games on other digital distribution sites like Direct2Drive.

Of course, back then that wasn't so odd. Hell, most games just let you play them physically and the only verification needed was that you had the CD in (I suppose that's now oddly more inconvenient than just 'be logged in on Steam' in my computer-centric always-online life). These days Steam has really wormed itself in and made itself pretty much the backend of any game released on its platform.

edited 5th Feb '18 7:19:16 PM by Lavaeolus

The inconvenience came from having to pop in disc after disc when reinstalling on a new computer, making sure you still had the key, etc.