Diversity and Representation in Media

x12 I hope her exit doesn't tank the movie production. She was a blatant flagship cast, but, bringing that story to the forefront was worth it, imo. Now that they don't have a big name on the poster, it can easily fade without wider attention if not stop filming altogether.

Also, hi folks! I've been reading this thread a lot(with breaks because it moves fast).

Welcome to the thread.

Presumably she’s still the producer and can participate in a supporting actor role, while the lead should go to a trans man actor.

Reminder also that Johansson’s name alone didn’t save Ghost in the Shell from flopping.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 14th 2018 at 11:14:41 AM

As someone that acknowledges all bad things about that movie and still likes parts of it, Scar Jo wasn't the reason it was bad. Just the unasked for cherry on the top.

Bad press hurt it and it didn’t help it was mediocre critically

I think her best role I’ve ever seen was Her and that’s a movie I can wholeheartedly reccomend

Yeah I dont't think Johansson is a horrible actress or anything, I just think she's a shitty person.

I think the issue with Ghost in the Shell was more that the fanbase wasn't that big in the first place. As important as Ghost in the Shell is for animation history, even Studio Ghibli movies aren't really that well known in the west outside of Spirited Away and a few other more mainstream friendly entries, and Ghost in the Shell dips into the more, well, informed animation fanbase. The group is tiny and it tends to be pretty attached to the animation itself which is exactly why so far none of the live action adaptions of Animes really worked out.

I think a better way to gauge her appeal is Lucy, a movie which did more money than expected because it was kind of sold on "not the Black Widow movie you want, but as close as you'll get now".

Question; what do you guys think of stories having human people of color from planets or realms not Earth but the story still features Earth?

An example of what I mean is Mortal Kombat which features Asians and black people from other realms besides Earth.

It only makes sense that they'd be as diverse as Earth. Although possibly with more unusual combinations of features that you wouldn't see often in real life, such as straight-haired, green-eyed redheads with black skin, or frizzy-haired and freckled with blue eyes that have epicanthal folds.

If they essentially look like human beings anyway, then I don’t see why it would be an issue.

I'm kind of trying to do a downplayed version of that with my fantasy setting, where people still have skin tones and whatnot that make sense for their their place of origin, but the different ethnicities don't quite line up with real life ones. And everyone has weird eye colors, for some reason.

Was that something related to this thread?

It was a direct response to a previous statement regarding diversity in fiction, so... yes?

Ah.

As for me, I make Humanoid races with features that set them apart from Humans.

Now...does anyone believe that Po C and women writers should be given more chances to work on movies? I'm just having the feeling that some people feel that certain themes in fiction can be only written by one race because they think they're the only ones to show a successful one?

That's the general consensus here, and arguably why this thread exists in the first place. Because a lot of people here think they are not getting enough representation.

And yes, it can be an issue if the minority cast members only play aliens and all of the human Earthling characters are white.

Edited by M84 on Jul 17th 2018 at 1:28:47 AM

PoC and women should have more chances at writing and getting roles, but they shouldn't be pigeonholed into only being allowed to write "PoC" or "woman" stories, if that makes sense.

Edited by PhiSat on Jul 16th 2018 at 11:26:46 AM

It all depends on whether bad representation is better or worse than no representation.

Case in point: the Mandarin in Iron Man 3. Having him played by a Chinese guy with all of the Yellow Peril trimmings played painfully straight would have been bad. But having him turn out to be a white guy? Even worse. That's outright erasure.

Edited by M84 on Jul 17th 2018 at 1:35:38 AM

It was making a point about yellow peril and Feindbilder in general.

Anyway, I don't want women to be limited to women lead movies, but I also think that if they are hired for those kind of movies, it increases their chances to get hired for other projects because they have something to show this way. Plus, I actually do think that there is a better chance for a female director to avoid the "male gaze" which can really ruin characters which are actually not THAT badly written (seen Lindey Ellis excellent videos about the framing in the Transformer movies to see what I mean in the extreme).

Making a point by not hiring a Chinese guy to play him?

No. That's not how you fucking do that.

Edited by M84 on Jul 17th 2018 at 2:24:01 AM

No, making a point about it by casting an actor with Indian roots to play what it turns out to be just a distraction to spread fear so that the white guy can operate freely because everyone is very ready to blame some foreign-looking terrorist guy. This is EXACLTY how you do it.

Now, if they had actually manage to build a good movie around the concept we might actually praise Ironman 3 for its bolt message.

Edited by Swanpride on Jul 16th 2018 at 11:25:00 AM

I would not. Not in the least because even if you ignore the racism... it’s still a pretty ableist movie.

Yep. Making the Extremis subjects be disabled veterans was all sorts of levels of misaimed. The movie seemed to think that was bold political commentary, but they’re not really given any sympathy or focused on very much.

It’s wholly on the movie too as in the original Extremis comic, the rogue Extremis subject was a Neo-Nazi.

Edited by Tuckerscreator on Jul 16th 2018 at 11:46:35 AM

Again, if they had made a good movie around the concept. IF. My point is that it is dishonest to claim "they sidestepped the issue by just casting a white guy" - that is a charge you can raise against Doctor Strange, but not against Ironman 3, which didn't side-step the question at all but instead made it the central theme of the damn movie. Weather one likes the result or if there are different points which should have been considered (I myself a thing or two to complain about regarding the portrayal of the female characters) is an entirely different question.

Maya Hansen was also NOT a bitter one night stand of Tony's in the comic and was the main villain of the arc so that's a triple whammy of tone deafness.

I admit, I'm a bit more forgiving of the Mandarin thing because it was done for the sake of social commentary but I do understand the disappointment in not getting a Chinese man to play him.

Edited by windleopard on Jul 16th 2018 at 12:12:05 PM

@IM 3 plot.

The Actorin had potential of being a clever plot. Well, it was a clever plot. All the details were there, but, the execution failed to deliver the point. Ben Kingsley still made a memorable character.

War veteran plot basically stripped everything except disability from the veterans and din't go in depth even on that point, so, failed in a place that had tons of potential.

It could have been so much more...

Edited by googlebot on Jul 16th 2018 at 10:16:51 PM