Marvel Cinematic Universe

If that country consists of one guy.

And the guy's my dad.

And he has a slave.

I'd try and do something about that. Wouldn't you?

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 6:01:05 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

And in that instance, they didn't know she was a slave. As we have repeated.

And when the cat was out of the bag, they killed they dude, and now the slave lives with them, where she's not forced to do anything, and gets a cut of their shady and not so shady practices.

And that's the end of that.

No, they just knew that she served her master faithfully, was raised in isolation by said master, and had never actually met other people and engaged in personal communication with them before.

So many things that could be.

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

If you think that’s the conversation or that this will stop it, get ready for a swerve.

It’s not a high bar to not act as though they have no problems with slavery. Private conversations where they mention “she’s a slave” in a uncomfortable tone or their general unease about it could solve that problem.

Nobody here has been saying that they should free every slave everywhere. Simply acting as though they feel it’s wrong is not a high bar!

Where is the idea where being a scumbag means being OK with slavery coming from?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:11:42 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

Because they don't. Because Slavery is a thing in the setting.

It does not-

It being a thing-

Because it is legal does not mean they should not act as though it is wrong! We had abolitionists when slavery was super common!

What?

Acting as though slavery is wrong is a super low standard. Why is that not a problem for our heroes and protagonists to not accept?

I mean Quill, as he puts it, is not a complete prick. How is not acting as though it’s wrong to have Mantis as a slave not being a complete prick?

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:37:15 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

Okay, one last time:

1. Several people in this thread have already pointed out that, before the twist, Mantis came across as more of a "kooky manservant" or "surrogate daughter" than "slave."
2. You are also judging her actions from a human perspective. Guess what Mantis isn't? Human. None of the Guardians know what species she is nor if this behavior is normal or not and, hey, Ego was their host, so best to just go along with it.
3. Quill and Gamora were also distracted by other things, including the fact that Quill just met his real father.
4. And a lot of the things that clue people in to Mantis being a slave were told directly and only to Drax. And Drax? Is dumb.

Once again: they didn't know she was a slave.

Once again, that would become tedious and unnecessary.

Because they have encountered a total of two slaves, one of whom they didn't even realize was a slave until they were already in a gigantic battle.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 5:48:11 AM

John Wick franchise writer Derek Kolstad is joining the writing team for Falcon and Winter Soldier.

If we don't have a scene with Bucky killing someone with a pencil I'll riot.

Nice. I highly enjoy the John Wick films, so I'm a-okay with this development.

Zemo is gonna kill Sam's pet bird.

The Winter Soldier has most likely racked up plenty of killer stories.

And amusingly he is Russian even if he wasn’t actually Russian.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 10th 2019 at 6:30:11 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Just a thing here: Aliterator is kinda sort of right when he said guardian arent superheroes, they are in the sense of having a alias or alter ego(in this case star lord) and doing incredible feats while saving something, in this case the galaxy.

But as general he is a criminal in a lawless world and those state that usually other bad stuff happen, the guardian not buy slave or engage in slavery but as kinda world they are moving, they dont stop it because is far for their control as we show in the first movie.

Also this is really a doylist complain than a watsonian one tobias, you are more annoyed by expection of what superheroic should be than anything else.

Anyway, for some reason I can see Bucky as john wick sort of chararter, it does really suit him.

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"

Birth.Movies.Death is reporting that Millie Bobby Brown is joining The Eternals.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess she's playing a gender-swapped Sprite, considering he's an Eternal who eternally looks thirteen.

Oh, it's completely a Doylist criticism. Most of my criticisms are. Characters just say the words their writers put in their mouths and do the things their writer makes them do; there's no point criticizing a character for inappropriate writing decisions. It's not Gamora's fault, for instance, that Gunn relegated her to love interest for most of her role.

Which is why it freaks me out to hear people defending the idea that a superhero film's protagonists should condone slavery. This has been a very uncomfortable and disturbingly eye-opening topic regarding society's positions towards slavery. Hell, at one point it even diverged into straight-up apologia towards the real-world existence of slavery.

Like. What the actual f*ck?

The creative team made the choice to present Mantis as a slave and then never talk about it. Like, I'm still not buying into this idea that the Guardians are canonically accepting of slavery. That's gross and evil, and not in a funny "It's cool if I steal things, right? Wink wink I'm so wacky!" sort of way. I 100% reject this interpretation of the characters as actually being intentionally pro-slavery, and it freaks me out that anyone would even suggest it.

No, I maintain that Mantis's handling is a failure on the part of the film's creative team to properly examine the gross dynamic that the character was written into. James Gunn had an idea for how to introduce a popular Guardians character that I'm sure sounded really good to a person who's never really handled the women in his films well, and then never thought twice about it.

Mantis's handling in the film is disgusting. This discussion of it, however, has managed to be significantly more disgusting. I'm torn between regretting bringing it up and feeling like the ideas expressed today are precisely why it's important to bring it up.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 7:57:08 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

If you think what I wrote was "apologia towards the real-world existence of slavery," then you are dead wrong. I was referring to the fact that you are criticizing the characters for things you yourself (and many other people) are guilty of.

Except, according to your logic, everyone who knows about slavery happening and does nothing is "canonically accepting of slavery" — which includes you, me, and everybody in this country (excepting those actively fighting against the Prison Industrial Complex). Knowing that slavery exists and doing nothing about it doesn't make the Guardians Worse Than Hitler anymore than it makes you and I bad people. You are staking the claim that "slavery is so bad that anyone who doesn't radically oppose it is also bad, worse than actual murderers." It's silly and also reductive.

And you still haven't accepted the fact that the Guardians didn't see Mantis as a slave until it was already too late.

Boy, you should never read any Conan the Barbarian or Red Sonja stories or any fantasy stories set in worlds where slavery exists.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 7:01:12 AM

I advocate against slavery. If someone I knew had slaves, I would try to do something about that. I don't personally know very many people for whom this is not true, even among the more conservative members of my family. And it bothers me that you apparently do.

If we cannot agree on a baseline of "Slavery is an uber-bad thing that no decent person would ever condone", then I really don't think there is anything more to discuss here.

Edited by TobiasDrake on Jul 10th 2019 at 8:06:20 AM

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

Can we please move on? It feels like we’re going in circles. And your last comment is a bit unnecessary and rude.

Edited by wisewillow on Jul 10th 2019 at 7:07:53 AM

Indeed this topic has become ridiculous.

Edited by slimcoder on Jul 10th 2019 at 7:10:34 AM

"I am Alpharius. This is a lie."

Sam better get a real Redwing for the series. Him giving his drone the Companion Cube treatment was neat, but I need the actual bird.

I don't think the Guardians condone slavery so much as they're apathetic to slavery. They just see it as not-their-problem.

The US Prison System is modern day slavery. Have you done anything about that? No, because, hey, guess what, there's nothing you really can do, except vote, which is not something that the Guardians can do.

What, you think I condone slavery? Because I pointed out the fact that slavery still exists in the United States and lots of people (including you) do nothing about it? That isn't condoning slavery. I don't think you know what "condoning" means.

There is a difference between "condone" and "cannot do anything about." The Guardians literally can't do anything about Carina — and they don't know that Mantis is a slave at all until it's too late.

Edited by alliterator on Jul 10th 2019 at 7:16:57 AM

Moving along, I haven't seen the John Wick films so I can't say much about this new writer, but I've heard good things. Basically "Keanu Reeves plays the Punisher", right?

My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.

take the good part of the punisher and leave is creepy uber super pseudo facism aside and oy kinda more of less have it.

Also is Keanu making good acting, that means less taking and more doing(I dont want to sound bad is just for me he is like clint eastwood, the few word he speak, the better).

"My Name is Bolt, Bolt Crank and I dont care if you believe or not"