Chrono Trigger

In what world are modern RPG releases trying to "be like Chrono Trigger"? The game is 25 years old; whatever influence it had on the industry (which is debatable anyway, given that it was the tail end of the 2D era, so was more like the pinnacle of the old style rather than a pioneer of a new one) is long gone.

On the subject of CT vs CC, I think they're both good, they're just wildly different. Most of the hate for CC comes off as people being pissed that it's not Chrono Trigger 2. CC is a great game with striking visual design, fantastic music, an interesting battle system, and a compelling story. It wasn't flawless by any means — the most obvious failure being the dozens of playable characters, which ended up with most of them being bland and interchangeable — but I find it very hard to see how anyone could consider it a bad game on the whole when considering it on its own merits.

Really from Jupiter, but not an alien.

yeah, I don't really see in what area exactly are modern rpgs trying to be chrono trigger specifically. I also strongly disagree with the idea it's one of the best games of all times. I played it for the first times the 2010s, and sure, it's really good, definitely one of the games who aged the best out of the rpgs of that era, but... that's it. I had played better by the time I played it, and I've played better several times by now.

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Chrono Trigger is the 12th best selling Super Famicom game, which is nothing to scoff at. It was a collaboration between the creators of Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, which got it a lot of attention at the time. It's usually high up on any best SNES game lists in both the West and Japan. It invented the term New Game+ (and its Japanese equivalent term). Its development led to a team in Square getting put together that later led to other games, not just Chrono Cross but also Xenogears.

Developers making new games right now probably don't have Chrono Trigger on their minds, but I would bet that the game had some influence later JRPGs even without taking account how it directly affected the careers of the game's devs (thinking about it, it's likely that if CT wasn't made then Xenoblade wouldn't exist).

I mean, I don't really disagree with that and no one really did ?

(I mean, I guess my statement towards "not one of the best game of all times" can be taken as such. That's my bad, I didn't meant to contest it's status as one of the best games of the SNES, I just assumed a more restrictive definition of best games of all time)

I also don't think anyone claims chrono trigger never influenced any future game - that'd be silly, but it's quite far cry from the idea RP Gs nowadays are trying to "be" like chrono trigger outside of a very broad "it's an all around competent good game with few blind spots" assertion.

Edited by Yumil on Feb 20th 2021 at 6:07:41 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

IF anything FFVII (Which Shares a couple of similar elements to Chrono Trigger in terms of villains, Jenovah = Female Lavos and all that) is more influential then Chrono Trigger. Hell, Chrono Trigger took far more influence from Live a Live then anything else and perfected the ideas behind that game.

Edited by Demongodofchaos2 on Feb 20th 2021 at 12:10:28 PM

Watch Symphogear

I don't know if VII is more influential? A huge leap forward, visually especially, but mechanically, I think it was a fairly straightforward evolution of the previous F Fs. Materia kind of combines jobs and espers, say, and the combat system, while the 3D characters were something else at the time, was still fairly static, in a way? I'm not saying that to downplay the importance of the game. I'm just saying that the combination of active time battle, real-time movement and positioning, and combo techs in CT — and yes, Live A Live got there first in a number of ways, but in terms of its place in the memory of the western audience of that time — was something very new at that moment. Obviously it's everywhere now.

I'm kind of guessing Awdry Fan didn't really mean game devs were still consciously imitating CT, more just that it's kind of automatic? Which I don't think is that controversial. Like, no, actually Live A Live and various other games pioneered a lot of the things western audiences credit CT for, and Seiken Densetsu 3 (/Trials of Mana) came out later that same year, which in some ways seems like the more ambitious game. But at the same time... CT put it all together: the larger animated sprites, the combat system as mentioned above, the degree of nonlinearity and multiple endings, the character-focused storytelling with its many quiet introspective moments, the mix of eras and sci-fi/fantasy, the advent of New Game+. Even if it sometimes falls into Seinfeld Is Unfunny territory now, I think it's earned its spot. In my heart, if nowhere else.

Yeah, it's definitely a subconscious thing now. Chrono Trigger really defined the tropes of the RPG genre, but while it went above and beyond in terms of storytelling and gameplay, modern RPGs, if you ask me, haven't really hit that bar.

Edited by AwdryFan on Mar 2nd 2021 at 5:23:09 AM

Another day, another forum.

In how world has chrono trigger defined the tropes of the rpg genre ?

Aside from inventing the concept of new game+, which is a very secondary feature, nearly everything chrono trigger did was done before by several prior rpgs. Chrono trigger didn't defined the genre, if anything it heavily borrowed from games that came before it, it simply put most of its elements together in a very competent way.

If anything, the couple of things chrono trigger did that were pretty unique have never really been reused and were pretty specific, secondary things anyway.

I'll also raise an eyebrow at the idea that rpgs somehow haven't manage to outdo chrono trigger, especially in the storytelling department - chrono trigger may have been outstanding for it's era and was and still is certainly competent at telling it's story, but the standards have gone way up since that Era and a story with chrono trigger's quality nowadays just strikes me as "above average".

Edited by Yumil on Mar 3rd 2021 at 2:14:34 PM

"when you stare too long into the abyss, Xehanort takes advantage of the distraction to break into your house and steal all your shit."

Apparently Nier, Lost Odyssey, Most of the DQ games, and FF 7 itself don't exist, then.

Watch Symphogear

Well, for my part, I would say that there have been games that have cleared that bar. Saying it redefined the whole genre is also a bit... strong, but it was eye-opening on the western console market at that point (PCs still being kind of niche back then). I would say the combat, along with things like Live A Live and Lunar: The Silver Star, did go on to influence later JRPGs, though. And the writing did subvert/play with a number of standard RPG tropes (maybe not redefining them, but I can see what Awdry was getting at), in a way that's largely invisible now, because 25 years later the subversion has become the new standard. That's how it goes. But the console RPG market was a lot sparser in the '90s, especially in the west. That kind of thing stood out more.

Edited by Unsung on Mar 3rd 2021 at 1:13:00 PM

So, I'm going to be trying out Chrono Trigger for the first time...since I was a pre-teen. I don't remember getting far so this is mostly terra incognita for me.

Here's what I remember:

1. Characters are designed by Toriyama, probably of Dragonball fame, never really confirmed it.

2. There was a time machine incident in the beginning at some fair and it went poorly. That's as far as I went. Also, some princess was there?

3. Lavos is a thing. Final Boss monster though I'm not totally sure what his deal is. A future weapon of some sort?

4. Combination attacks.

5. Magus. I know his name and his music, not much else.

6. Some frog named Froopy?

...I think that's it.

Edited by fredhot16 on Jul 25th 2021 at 5:49:04 AM

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

<Sits back while eating popcorn>

Yes. The character designs are by Akira Toriyama of Dragonball fame. If you look, you can actually see a resemblance between some of the Chrono Trigger characters and DB characters (Marle looks a bit like Bulma, Chrono like Trunks, etc).

Yup.

Since you're still getting back into the game, I won't spoil, but yeah, he's the main villain...so to speak.

Hell yeah.

If you know his music, you know one of the best things (though Magus is pretty cool all around)

Just Frog actually.

Have fun.

One Strip! One Strip!

Ah. I heard of it being that Toriyama but I was unsure because I heard there was another Toriyama associated with Square Enix or Squaresoft as it was known back then.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

Just as this thread gets active again my copy of Chrono Trigger on the DS arrives in the mail!

I bought a Japanese copy, since its one of the four DS games which also has English support. So it just comes up with English when I put the cart in my DS lite.

While I would have preferred an English copy, secondhand NA copies are going for about 150 AUD right now. And it only cost me about a bit over 40 AUD including shipping for a sealed Japanese copy.

So I'm pretty happy with that.

Planning on giving it a replay soon since I've only played it once before on the Wii Virtual console. Probably about 10 years ago at this point.

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob

Totally forgot how utterly unfair and tough Giga Gaia is as a boss if you don't take the time to sidequest and get the multiple elemental armors from the sealed chests before the battle. They truly do make a world of difference. Otherwise, his attack speeds on all three of his parts are insanely fast.

I've been replaying Chrono Trigger the past few nights.

It's quite nice how its a pretty quick game to get going, so I make a fair bit of progress each time I play.

Mostly.

Last night I decided to have Ayla learn Charm right away, since on my previous run I didn't really Steal from anyone. And I know there's some good stuff on bosses and most of everything in the Black Omen I don't want to miss.

It took a couple of hours grinding on Nu, but I managed to do it.

I heard the Dactyl Nest is also a good option, but I went for the one that wouldn't also over level me.

I did end up with about 85 of each 65 Million BC resource. And that was even after buying all of the equipment I could halfway though!

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob

Been recently replaying Trials of Mana, the 3D remake of Secret of Mana 3 for the SNES that never made it to American shores and I was wondering... if they could have done with from the ground up for SD 3, why not for Chrono Trigger? It'd sell like crazy, probably even better than Trials of Mana! Add in some additional bonus content and maybe some endgame super bosses/dungeons for those min/max players and you got gold here.

So, I got as far as...wait, what's the upper limits of spoilers? Just in case, I got as far as defeating the Dragon Tank after doing a one-man breakout of my prison, cutting down guards with one hit. Like a boss.

1. I've noticed the guide (don't worry, I was only using to find out what it meant for "Fire" and "Lightning" to be on Lucca and Chrono's screens, I played blind up to then) says that Marle has a "ferocious temper" which...isn't really a thing so far? She's more mischievous, fun-loving and rambunctious then, well, actually temperamental and angry, as I associate with the words "ferocious temper".

Where do all these royals get the desire to flaunt the establishment and pretend to be somebody else?

2. The trial. I got the strong feeling that my "Guilty" verdict of, like, four to three could have been less stacked in the "Guilty" favor or even gotten an acquittal if I had done some things differently like not stealing people's lunches and somehow wrangling kittens for children (which I tried but the cat just disappeared when I got near it), which...was all a surprise, honestly. I didn't

3. Welp, this game is about time travel. It seems...simple so far. Marle was the princess descended from Queen Lene and if they never find Queen Lene, Marlene would never exist...though that raises the question that if Marle disappeared, wouldn't that also mean that Lene could also just be...dead?

Also, Marle says she was somewhere cold and vast...which, like, I guess she wasn't written out of time, just kidnapped by the Time Fairies. She shouldn't have felt anything, death is like that.

I suppose I could be curious about if Chrono never met Marle, how would Chrono and Lucca still be here to see her disappear...I mean, it's Marle's pendent that caused the whole thing so if she never existed...

4. I see why Marle's weapon is a "Bronze Bow"...it's clearly a crossbow. Not sure how she was able to carry that with her.

5. I noticed some of Toriyama's distinctive artwork like with Chrono's eyes and it was fun beating up Pilaf in the forest.

6. I'm doing this with Active Time Battle and I think I'm getting a hang of the basics. I've even come up with my own trick: attacking cancels a monster's animation to attack so attack first

I used Chrono and Frog as the heavy-hitters while Lucca cleans up as they move on to the next threat. Also, there's a "Maidensuit" for Lucca and Marele. That's a thing.

...I'm kinda getting annoyed that for a combat system that makes important use of positioning, you can't...move. Or get around into the proper position.

That annoyed me about Final Fantasy XIII, too. I liked the Paradigm System but why are you giving me such a free and wide-spread battlefield if I can't move around it? Why can't I dodge?

7. Do you have to do anything specific to maximize the amount of Tech Points you get?

8. I keep stumbling upon these black chests that are "sealed with a mysterious force". The hell's up with that?

9. The guide also said that if I waited until my execution, I could have gotten Lucca's help in breaking out. But, nope, with two days, I broke out all on my own- a one-man prison breakout from the inside! The experience is all mine!

Don't worry, I'm not using the guide, it's just things I saw. I beat the Dragon Tank on my own, for example. I aimed for the wheel first, then took out the Dragon Tank's head then went wild with my Techs.

Also, I really like Combination Attacks so I'm having fun with Flame Whirl.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

It's possible to be found not guilty at the trial if you did things right back at the fair. Though even if that happens the chancellor just lies to and intimidates the prison warden into jailing you anyway. The only difference it makes (outside having the moral highground) is that you find a handful of Ethers in your cell.

Don't think about it too much. Chrono Trigger isn't too concerned about the exact mechanics of time travel, and it doesn't apply things totally consistently.

No. Tech Points are just determined by the enemy killed, the exact same as EXP. The only thing of note with them is that characters not currently in your party get 75% of EXP earned in battle but get no Tech Points, so if you bench a character for a long time they won't be far behind others stat-wise but will likely be far behind on learning Techs.

Without really spoiling anything, there's a scene way later in the game where Marle's pendent gets "powered up". You can start opening the black chests after that. I'll give you some advice since it's about missable items that it's unlikely you'd find out on your own. If you find any black chests that exist in both 600 AD and 1000 AD, then after being able to open them you should examine the chests in 600 AD first while choosing not to open them. Then open them in 1000 AD and you'll get a powered up version of the equipment they would otherwise have, then you can go back open the chests in 600 AD to get the non-powered up item.

Hah. I also did most of that when I played the game for the first time (the Final Fantasy Chronicles set for the original Playstation....even though CT is not a Final Fantasy game). Note, that if you try to walk away while Marle is getting some...I think it was Ice Cream, she asks out loud if you're trying to kidnap her....and that also gets used against you in the trial.

Yeah. Messing up during the fair can really come back to bite you, though as explains, the Chancellor will screw you over anyway, even if you behaved.

One Strip! One Strip!

Nonsense! Who do you think I am? I will never shirk the opportunity to think about something, especially something like time travel that can make sense if you take the time to consider it.

Thanks for the advice!

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

So, on that overthinking thing, a thought came to me in the shower: how endurable and strong is Chrono’s sword?

I have this thing where sometimes I try to choreograph boss battles in my head like you would read in a novel. This time, it was about Chrono and Lucca fighting the Dragon Tank. Since destroying the Head is what makes it more vulnerable to your Duel Techs, it made me think of a finishing move where Lucca sets Chrono’s sword on fire and the superheated steel allows Chrono to charge forward and stab the sword into it’s mechanical heart, destroying the innards by pulling it up and out in a crescent motion.

Which inspired the question because swords on fire...tend to go to pot? I admit, I may have caught that detail from ASOIF, which mentions that a priest who’s in the habit of setting his swords on fire keeps having to replace them or that a sword on fire is not the same as a sword of fire.

Trans rights are human rights. TV Tropes is not a place for bigotry, cruelty, or dickishness, no matter who or their position.

It gets funnier given the fact that Crono's starting weapon is a wooden sword. Unless Lucca had anything to do with their crafting or anything, makes you wonder if the Middle Ages or whatever had the ability to make fireproof weapons. Side effect of dealing with Magus and any other kind of magic stuff, or something?

Wake me up at your own risk.

Hah. That reminds me of a fanfic I read where they do Crono and Lucca's fire based team up tech and it flat out burns Crono's sword. I believe it was Magus 523's Novelization of the game.

One Strip! One Strip!

You really shouldn't feel bad about the trial.

The cat especially is notorious for being difficult.

I followed a guide this time while playing, and still one juror said I was guilty despite satisfying his "not guilty" condition.

In my playthough I've made good progress.

Currently endgame spoilers up to the point where Crono has died and I've recruited Magus.

I've also unlocked the DS exclusive stuff, but not sure if I'll do that sidequest chain or not.

I was browsing though some Chrono Trigger fanfic in the past few nights. I think old video game fanfic is pretty interesting. There are a bunch of novelizations, but its always neat seeing different author's takes on the characters.

Edited by 32ndfreeze on Aug 9th 2021 at 5:07:31 AM

"But if that happened, Melia might actually be happy. We can't have that." - Handsome Rob