Line #19 Headscratchers/DevilMayCry5


1	!Per wiki policy, Administrivia/SpoilersOff applies here and all spoilers are unmarked. Administrivia/YouHaveBeenWarned.
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5	[[folder:What exactly inspired Vergil to change his mind about the Qliphoth?]]
6	While the argument could be made that Vergil realized that the Qliphoth destroying everything wasn't what he was going for when he separated his demonic half from his human half, what caused that fact to set in? Was he planning to fix everything once he had gotten beating Dante out of his system? As it is it looks like he was fine with everything that Urizen caused until Nero beat him, which didn't seem to present any specific argument on why he should act. Prior to that he was just hanging around at the top of the Qliphoth waiting for Dante and watching the tree tear up everything down below.
7	* Arguably, it was the culmination of many things. Realizing that humanity could bring forth even more power than a demon, being loved and protected for the first time in his memory, seeing that the human world had someone that he could care for, and seeing that he had lost, and so he would surrender could all play parts.
8	** It could also be the fact that, aside from the above, he remembers his time from being Urizen and V which has given him some much needed perspective.
9	** There's also the fact that Vergil has finally seen just what kind of power forsaking his humanity would ultimately grant him through Urizen's actions, and it was not enough, in fact, it made him weaker.
10	*** Also, he saw what being a pure demon would do. It wasn't just power, but the loss of self. He no longer was Vergil, but rather Urizen. He lost himself, lost his goals and intent, etc.
11	* From a more noble standpoint, he wanted to prove what he'd always believed about himself -- that the reason he wanted power was to defend himself and those he cared for, not power for power's sake. From a less noble standpoint, he was embarrassed by his failure and the mess he'd caused and wanted to erase it from existence, root and branch.
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14	[[folder:Just how dense is Nero?]]
15	Why is Nero even the least bit surprised to learn he is related to Dante and thus Sparda himself? Considering how many different characters throughout both DMC 4 and 5 specially tell him outright he is a direct descendant of Sparda, Sanctus and Malphas specifically, how he clearly reacted to a sword that belonged to Sparda, as Dante point out himself, the physical resemblance, white hair and all, just everything about his physical capabilities...it’s actually amazing Nero never simply ask Dante if he is his father.
16	* Nero did know that he was of the Sparda bloodline. It was hammered into his head pretty thoroughly. Nero just assumed that he was a distant descendant rather than Sparda's direct grandson.
17	** When Sparda only has one known descendant and that descendent has the same white hair and exact same powers you do it's pretty stupid not to at least consider Dante might be his father, yet in 5 Nero comes across as blindsided by the very idea he might have family. A sensible person would at least have asked Dante if he knows anything about his past but there's no suggestion this ever happened.
18	* Admittedly, the timeline has always been a bit murky. Sparda sealed off the underworld thousands of years ago, but only fathered the twins recently. He could conceivably have had other lovers and children in the meantime.
19	* Sparda has been around for two thousand years, it's already dumb that he only had two offsprings no point trying to call someone dumb for not knowing Sparda did that.
20	** How is it stupid? Sparda spent most of his time as a warrior fighting off Mundus' forces and sealing away the Underworld and whatever demonic threats he found. He wasn't living a normal life and spending time with the human ladies for fun, settling down with Eva and having the boys was something new and special of their bond.
21	* All Nero knew was that he had demonic power because his Devil Bringer appeared after he sustained an injury, and that demonic power was compatible with Yamato. He also knew that Dante is the brother of the most well known wielder of Yamato. It's not unreasonable for someone who isn't intimately aware of Dante's side of the story to see them as unrelated. That, and it's going to be a shock to learn that the guy who you fought twice is your uncle and the guy who ripped your arm off is your father. In short, Nero is not desensitized to the ways of the world
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24	[[folder:What was the U.S. military doing in Red Grave City?]]
25	It's firmly established that Red Grave is a British city. Shouldn't the invasion there have been handled by the British Army?
26	* To be fair it is only established that it is a British ''Inspired'' city, we are never actually told where in the world it is, and Devil May Cry's world has many divergences from ours, and remember this a game made by a Japanese company, it could be a military case of YouALLLookFamiliar. in general most of the locations in the series tend to look very British, maybe in this timeline the American Revolution never happened and America stayed a British colony?
27	* My assumption is that the Brits called on their allies to help support them in suppressing the demon invasion.
28	* It may also count as FridgeHorror. If we are to assume that Redgrave City is in London, and that the military present is the US army, [[InferredHolocaust what happened to the British army]] before the US came to help?
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31	[[folder:The Patricide Situation]]
32	Nero finds out Vergil is his father, and he is justifiably angry and confused. He meets up with Nico, Lady and Trish on the van and tells them about it while trying very hard to keep his composure. Trish doesn't make the situation any better, undermining Nero's feelings and says the little spectacle of "I know you hate Vergil, but you can't your own father." This line feels stupid and idiotic for many reasons. Nero never grew up knowing Vergil and therefore never formed an actual bond or relationship with him. His first meeting with him ended in Vergil ripping of his arm and stealing Yamato, and then there's his interactions with V and Urizen. V does treat him with more respect and concern, but it's clear he used Nero to re-merge into Vergil. Urizen on the other hand tries to kill Nero twice. Knowing these things, why would killing Vergil be that tragic or heartbreaking for Nero? Lady has the excuse of being raised by her father and actually knowing him, and even after he became a monster, she still loved him to some degree due to the years they spent together. Nero has no such excuse and could at worse assume his father was evil, a psychopath and not parental material, he doesn't have those years of parental love that Lady had and so why should he care if the person he has to kill is his own father? Are you going to mourn the lost of a father who never knew or was an evil depraved psychopath the entire time you knew them? Yes, Nero does instead decide to stop Dante and Vergil from killing each other and does want Vergil to be part of his life, no doubt due to the level of maturity he has grown to possibly and having core values, and it's a good thing that Vergil, no doubt through V's influence, has become more accepting and compassionate (albeit in his own way). Many parts of this are hypothetical but still are valid.
33	* "Filial piety" is a very big deal in Japanese culture and folklore. You don't kill your own relatives, much less your own parents, unless there is truly no other option, as that "treachery" against one's own blood can taint one's spirit forever. That's why no one argues that Vergil flat-out shouldn't be killed, just that Nero mustn't be the one to do it. It's Nero who decides that Vergil should be saved, and I reckon that's because he wants Vergil to answer to him more than anything else. He says himself that he's never had family before and isn't sure how to process the new information. He doesn't want the only two people who can clear everything up killing each other before he gets the explanation he feels he's owed.
34	* You're ignoring how Nero was when Dante told him. He doesn't act like he doesn't care about Vergil. Nero gets frustrated, angry and emotionally compromised so he's not exactly in the right head space. And as Lady points out, killing his father isn't something one just does and gets over.
35	* Having watched those scenes a few times Nero never actually expresses an interest in killing Vergil, everyone else just assumes that since he hated Urizen that he also hates Vergil. Instead he seems to just be having difficulty processing that Vergil is his father, Dante is his uncle and he has a family for the first time in his life.
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38	[[folder:Re: V's apparent age]]
39	* V is the physical manifestation of Vergil's human half, so why does he look so much younger than Vergil? We get a brief glimpse of pre-giant demon Urizen immediately after they're divided, and though we only see him cloaked and from behind he seems to be the same height and build as Vergil; on the other hand, V isn't just much skinnier than Vergil (which would make sense due to his frailty) but he looks much younger than Vergil and Dante.
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41	** He is but two days old. So was Urizen but Urizen is a demon, they can grow really big and ugly fast while V is pretty much the angsty teen Vergil never grew out of.
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43	** Also, V is the manifestation of Vergil's humanity. He may look that young because that was about when Vergil sealed away his own humanity and embraced his demon side. The body aged, but his humanity was stunted, sealed away in favor of his demon side (consider that V looks to be roughly the age that Dante and Vergil were around the time of [=DMC3=], when Vergil became Nelo Angelo)
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46	[[folder:Why Is The Military Having So Much Trouble With The Demons?]]
47	We know that humans can kill demons as shown by Lady and Beryl so why is MilitariesAreUseless in such strong effect? Hell, these games keep going on about some hidden power that humans are supposed to possess that demons don't have.
48	* Human weaponry such as guns are shown not to be all that effective against demons, an example being how the Blue Rose was designed to fire two bullets, one to break through the defences of the demon and the second to deal the actual damage, and Lady mainly uses the Kalina Ann when in battle, which even the lowest of demons are able to take a few missiles from. It should also be noted that these military forces have never faced off against demons while Lady has been doing it for decades, and her style is very different from what we she from the soldiers in Mission 1. Watching this ''[[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ySvOFQjvi9s cutscene]]'', we can see that Lady is continuously moving, acting quickly and manoeuvring around the demons, being aware of every demon around her and keeping herself out of their range while a wipe variety of weapons as the situation changes. Meanwhile ''[[https://youtu.be/NEuzdhEeWd8 the soldiers]]'' use standard military tactics that leaves them open for even the Empusa's to overwhelm them. It should also be noted that demons are more dangerous than how the player interacts with them. An Empusa may fall after being shot enough, but if a Green Empusa is around the dozens of bullets used by the soldiers would be completely wasted. Pyrobats might be frail, but they fly quickly and are relatively small targets. Baphomets and Lusachias can create barriers that block bullets, Death Scissors can phase through walls, not to mention demons like the Fury or Hell Judecca who have the ability to teleport. The existence of the Infestants, which are the reason the infamous Infested Chopper exists, would be able to turn humanities weapons against them if they were in the game.
49	* As for human power, it seems to be in relation to other powers, like a demon with humanity is more powerful than a human, the ability to care and love others. While Urizen got all of Vergil's power and V was created for the sole purpose of dying, even after eating the Qliphoth fruit Dante still far surpassed him, with Vergil only managing to match Dante after Urizen merged with V, who had been able to rediscover his humanity.
50	* Also, the military has NO connection to the supernatural. Lady is related to both Arkham and Kalina Ann, so she has some degree of ties to the supernatural. She may subconsciously empower her weapons
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53	[[folder:Why let V live?]]
54	* Urizen obviously held no love for humanity, so why didn't he turn around kill V?
55	** Why kill something he thought was worthless and irrelevant?
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58	[[folder:"Nero is my son?.. Oh wait, of course he is!"]]
59	* Vergil may not be the absolute smartest guy around, but he's still a pretty smart cookie. He sees Nero, a young human-demon hybrid with white hair, demon powers, a magical sword, and a connection with his own brother Dante, all while being aware of the apparent single time he ever had sex with a human woman 20-something years ago, and yet he doesn't put the pieces together that Nero is his son until Dante tells him?
60	** He likely assumed Nero was Dante's son.
61	** In Visions of V, Griffon points out that Nero had to be either Dante or his child. V brushes it off, saying there's no point finding out because the Sparda's bloodline is cursed to fight one-another like him and Dante.
62	** Plus, it's VERGIL. Someone whose entire worldview revolves around himself. He may never have even considered the possibility of having a son, and so just wrote it off.
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65	[[folder:What did Dante think V was?]]
66	* A strange man with a cryptic way of speaking turns up with cash, a grudge against Vergil, and inside knowledge about his plans, and Dante apparently didn't ask him ''any'' questions about his true nature or his own motives. Did he think "Welp, my brother's made yet another enemy" or did he just hyperfocus on the fact that it was ''Vergil'' to the point where nothing else seemed important?
67	** Dante is implied to know early on what V is (such as knowing Yamato can separate the human and demon sides). Why else would he react to V stabbing Urizen like that?
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70	[[folder:Are we supposed to take Cavaliere Angelo seriously?]]
71	* If you look at Dante's fight with Cavaliere in isolation he comes across as this ominous BlackKnight akin to Nelo Angelo, but how are we supposed to take him seriously when we've already seen him be bossed around and abused by Malphas and then get beaten and forced to humilatingly run away with his tail between his legs by V of all people?
72	** The only bosses anyone takes seriously are Urizen and Vergil. The characters are so strong at this point that there's no real danger of losing. V's the only one in any real danger and that's only because his half who he should be and literally falling apart.
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Context Headscratchers / DevilMayCry5