This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Violet:I removed
- Heroes', uh, Hiro, proves he can be as vengeful as any villain when he leaves Adam in the grave, knowing that Adam cannot die due to his regenerative abilities, and will forever be entombed alive.
INH: The online comics have Adam suffocating and regenerating over and over again. Don't ask me how that works, but that means that this still counts.
Twin Bird: Linking to Mind Rape as "worse than rape" kind of seems like asking for it, doesn't it?
Lale: Asking for what?
Earnest: I'm guessing here, but it might be asking for someone to come in and say "How dare you say a fictional torture is worse than a very real and life shattering harm?!" Cue gnashing of teeth and tearing of clothes. Mind you, I'm all for the links' inclusion, my guess is Twin Bird is worried some may find the comparison offensive. =shrug=
lale: I actually never saw it as fictional torture but symbolic of the real torture.
Peteman: I remember an episode of Star Trek the Next Generation, they come across an uninhabitable planet with an artificial habitation area created for a man a bunch of aliens accidentally abducted. They created the area using a certain book as a template as an apology for killing his friends and stranding him alone. However, what makes this a fate worse than death is that they have limited understanding of human psyche and tastes, so what they thought was a guide to preferred human lifestyles was actually a poorly written, plot hole riddled, cliche storm filled with one dimensional characters and a Deus Ex Machina ending. The man said in his diary that although he did not hold any contempt for the aliens for what they did, he was going to welcome death when it happened.
Earin: I'm not sure whether these fit, but in lots of episodes of things involving time travel, such as JLU's That Once and Future Thing, and an episode of The Outer Limits, the eeebil creator of the technology, when the reset button is pushed, is left trapped in a very short time loop, doomed to repeat the same action over and over again for ever.
Haven: I want to edit this page to include the following:
- Parodied in Futurama; when the characters are being rapidly de-aged, Farnsworth explains that if this keeps up, "we'll keep getting younger until we suffer a fate worse than death: pre-life! Then death."
...but I also really, really don't want to see that Avatar spoiler. So someone else do it please, or alternatively, I'll just wait until August.
Meems: Ugh. I read the Avatar spoiler before realising what it was. Honestly people, the episode hasn't AIRED yet, it shouldn't be used for examples. (And I'll add the Futurama example for you, Haven.)
That Other 1 Dude: Disputed
- In the end of Avatar The Last Airbender, Fire Lord Ozai is denied an honourable death in combat. Instead, Aang removes his bending, he's ridiculed by a bunch of kids, and he's thrown in solitary confinement, making one wonder how Aang could have possibly thought this was more merciful than death. Also, Azula has a complete mental breakdown once she is defeated, though Word of God has said she may possibly recover.
Seriously, how the hell are not having bending anymore, facing a moderate amount of ridicule, and getting life in jail with your own private cell and a mental breakdown worse than death?
Lale: See Avatar The Last Airbender Discussion.
Andrew: It was not a Fate Worse than Death. He was thwarted, lost his powers, and carted off to prison. A common fate of supervillains. Nothing unique about that makes it especially harsh.
Charred Knight: I don't know what comics you have read, but losing your abilities is not a common ending for supervillains. Once again look at it from Ozai's view, your power hungry, and believe only in strength, now you have lost the abilities that made you powerful, and are stuck in a small cell being ridiculed for the rest of your miserable life. Also most series I see have losing your super powers being considered a Fate Worse than Death, Naruto is a good example about freaking out about losing his arms, while the Third Hokage mentions, that Orchimaru who prides himself on his knowledge of Jutsu can no longer preform most of the ones he knew.
Nlpnt: Orochimaru lost normal use of his arms, too- I've been dropping, um, hints for MasakoX and Vegeta3986 about how they might like to treat this in case they're out there lurking- but my point is, someone in that condition has to deal with considerable loss of dignity due to becoming dependent on caregivers for basic personal needs. Ozai doesn't have quite the same problem.
(Months later)
Andrew: Stop trying to force Ozai into Fate Worse than Death! He doesn't meet the criteria without seriously stretching things! He lost his powers (which he abused) and was sent to prison. A blow to his ego is the only thing he suffers, nothing else! When Batman destroys The Joker's gadgets, thwarts him, and sends him to Arkham Asylum, did Joker suffer a Fate Worse than Death? NO!
Also Word of God implies Azula can one day get better. If you can get better, it ain't a FWTD. And enough with this "denied an honourable death" bullshit. Avatar is a KID'S SHOW on NICKELODEON! Like Aang giving Ozai an honourable death was even an option! Plus the series gave no indication that Ozai ever gave a damn about honour.
Avatar has no examples of Fate Worse than Death. Entry Pimp it somewhere else.
That Other 1 Dude: It's not entry pimping, it's Fan Wank. Lale keep adding it here and on the character page for the same reason everyone else can't stand an example they think fits shouldn't be removed.
Lale: Who added it the first time?
ProudNintendofan: Personally since there's no evidence either of them ever changed their ways, I personally think they should both qualify as fates worse than death.
Haven: I always thought the case for Ozai qualifying as a Fate Worse than Death was viewing it as a lobotomy: after his bending is removed he just stumbles around unable to stand up or even speak. My interpretation is that he's just temporarily stunned and seeing it as anything else is Tethercat Principle (which is also the reason Azula keeps getting listed here), but I can understand where the people who put it here are coming from.
TweTwe: What's this Dearly Devoted Dexter yodeling potato thing? I don't get it... gory details, anyone?
Seanette: (Took the liberty of correcting that title for you) OK, you asked for this, but others didn't, so I'll put the explanation in a spoiler block to shield the squeamish (even I found this deeply disturbing, and I've been reading Stephen King since grade school): everything on the victim had been cut off, bit by bit, over an extended period (long enough that some amputations had healed), leaving only a featureless head (minus such amenities as nose, teeth, and ears) attached to a limbless torso. The victim being male, the genitals had been removed. Even the eyelids had been removed, and the bare eyeballs were helpfully aimed at a mirror to allow the conscious victim to see what he had been turned into. Without lips or tongue, anything more intelligible than a yodeling noise was extremely difficult.
AttorneyAtLawl: I'm going to go ahead and remove:
- In Sometimes Luck is not so Good
, Tina falls into a vat of cheesecake and is forced to eat her way out of it. Once out, she is in such a stupor that she clamps onto a cheesecake release hose and balloons up to 10 tons (Though recent calculations estimate her at roughly 2,500,000 pounds) and is, of course, completely immobilized under her fat. The story also alludes that despite her massive size, she's still at least somewhat healthy, somehow.
(NSFW). Besides, if you actually read the thing (oh god, my eyes, etc), it ends with a "good" ending - namely, Tina remains morbidly, impossibly obese, but is transported to a huge pasture and someone actually marries the huge blob of fat. So Yeah. If anyone disagrees, feel free to put it back up, but I don't think it fits... no pun intended.
Superlagg: Hehe, I knew someone would have something to say about that entry. Even though she gets married and moved to the pasture, she's still so impossibly fat that she's unable to move any part of her body, and if we ignore some of the author's inconsistencies after he states that her breasts and cheeks and whatnot have grown to block out her field of view, she wouldnt even be able to see the pasture, just her monstrously obese body, if even that. Heck, even if she could see, eventually the scenery must become boring, or make her yearn to move, anything that'll remind her that she's completely helpless and stuck where she is forever. I feel it fits, either everything up to the epilogue or everything some time after the epilogue.
It also goes to show that if you over analyze fetish fuel, it leads to some really weird results.
AttorneyAtLawl: Yes, but you're thinking in terms of a horror story, or a story where the characters aren't supposed to be happy. This is a fetish fuel story hosted on a "fat furry" fetish fuel website - the story is meant to have a good ending, and it does if you're into this sort of thing, I guess. It's meant to be kinky, not sad and/or scary.
Superlagg: Even though the story had a happy ending, it doesn't change the fact that the main character is completely paralyzed, immobile, and (possibly, barring inconsistencies) blind for the rest of her life. Eh, maybe you're right, maybe this isnt exactly the best example of a fate worse than death, maybe this would fit better in the Body Horror trope. Trust me, a lot of furry works would classify as body horror, regardless of how happy they seem.
Attorneyatlawl: I still hold to that it can't be a Fate Worse than Death if you are enjoying it. It's obvious the character is happy in the end, which is considerably better than being dead. I didn't even think of Body Horror, but this does fit much, much better in that category.
What the heck is that picture? A spaceship being crushed by a giant P? I don't get it.
Shay Guy: Wasn't the line "You'd be surprised what you can live through" only used three times in The Return of Jafar? (By Genie, Jafar, and Iago, as I recall.)
Discar: Somebody removed both of the page quotes. I'm going to put them back—if someone doesn't like that, maybe we can discuss it here? Or at least get a reason. Also, I reconstructed them from memory (I can never get the revert function to work), so if I got them wrong, it would be great if someone could fix them.
Lale: They're already listed on the Quotes wiki page for this trope. We have the Quotes pages for a reason — to keep the front page from getting cluttered with quotes.
