The former is a Zero Context Example and can be removed on those grounds, and the latter also lacks context because it only presents the moment as it appears to explicitly contextless people In-Universe rather than the viewer.
They could count, but as written neither of them do.
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On 7/9, I opened this discussion and sent a PM to DezzMarie95 inviting them to participate. I received a reply indicating they had read and acknowledged the invitation but nothing further. In light of there being no further activity on this discussion and no participation by DezzMarie95, I'm going to assume silence implies agreement with issues and remove the BLAM entries as unfit examples of the trope and reference this discussion in the edit reason.
Facilier clearly only crossed the Moral Event Horizon when he offered the souls to his friends. Squashing a bug is not evil and does not compare to that at all. Both of his actions were understandable but Ray stole the amulet and harming the shadows. Facilier killing him was not an evil thing and killing a bug is nothing compared to offering the souls of people.
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In our world, it's not an evil thing. But in the universe of this film, where bugs talk and are anthropomorphized? Yes, it is, especially since it's implied Facilier knows fully well these animals are sapient.
Edited by MrMediaGuy2
I agree that offering the souls of all New Orleans to his "friends on the other side" is his Event Horizon crossing point.
Also, the trope is not about a collection of all the bad, evil, or naughty things a character does but rather it is the single defining moment that the character does something that shows they are irredeemably evil.
As such, there should always only be one single example for this trope for any given character. Once they've crossed the horizon, any other evil actions are simply to be expected from an evil character.
You can debate over when the crossing point occurs, but that should be handled by discussion and result in only a single entry.
As far as Facilier is concerned, he crossed the line when he offered the souls of innocent people because it showed his lack of respect for their lives, his stepping on innocent Ray didn't cause him to cross the line again it was just another example of his lack of respect for life.
Edited by rva98014
Thank you. If anything he had a justified reason for crushing Ray as he stole the amulet and then was harming the shadows. Even if it's bad it is nothing compared to offering the souls of many people to his friends. He didn't take that much sadistic glee in killing Ray but when he offered the souls he clearly went over the line.
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Why is it "Ymmv"? It should be "YMMV" (all caps).
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Because someone created it under the wrong capitalization, and now it's stuck with it.
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Re cut request: I understand what is being tried, but losing the page history is too big a loss for my liking.
"For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for Nature cannot be fooled." - Richard Feynman
Back in April 2020, troper DezzMarie95 put in two entries for the Big Lipped Aligator Moment trope. On reviewing the examples, I didn't feel that either fit all the criteria for this trope and removed each one individually with an edit reason explaining why. On July 5th, just before the server crash DezzMarie95 restored the two entries verbatim.
In the interest of avoiding an edit war, I'm presenting the two items as a discussion for removal and seeking consensus.
The Big Lipped Aligator Moment (BLAM) is defined as "a very bizarre scene in an otherwise normal story that veers off into the surreal or strange. Upon exiting that scene, the plot continues on like it never happened."
Further, the BLAM has (3) criteria:
(1) Appears out of Nowhere — The plot comes to a halt as the scene takes its spot in the running time. There can't be any Foreshadowing and it can't take a logical place in the plot.
(2) Strange in Context — The fictional setting, characters, and narrative devices have to be at odds with the scene.
(3) Never Goes Anywhere — a BLAM will be swept under the rug and forgotten as quickly as possible; It has no impact on the plot.
The first entry is:
While the frog hunters are definitely one scene wonders, the scene doesn't fit criteria (2) because frog hunters are not uncommon in a swamp setting. The scene really doesn't fit criteria (1) either. Both Naveen and Tiana have just been turned into frogs and escaped into the swamp. It was inevitable that they'd encounter dangers on their way to be cured. The frog hunters provide that danger. In addition, right after the hunters appear, Tiana and Naveen have some character development dialog and the scene shows them cooperating to completely escape capture. There may be debate over whether this is the first time they are "getting along" but there's no way to argue they weren't at least cooperating. So this scene does not put the plot on hold and isn't a BLAM.
Second entry is:
The example focuses on how the event would be a BLAM to the passengers of the riverboat. While there's some merit to that argument, the BLAM trope is focused on how the scene plays out to the viewing audience not in-universe observers. To that end, Louis' passion to play as part of a jazz band was well foreshadowed prior to this scene so the viewing audience would take his actions as completely in line with his character and not find it strange or unexpected when he can't resist pulling out his trumpet and playing along. So it fails criteria (1) and (2) and since the ending shows that Louis finally has his own jazz band, it fails criteria (3).
Neither example fits, and both should be removed.
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