Discussion YMMV / YuGiOhSevens

This is a moot point anyway because the trope is about when the authors acknowledge that the did this in response to a criticism.

That is a common criticism though, even if it’s not as vocal as most. Arguably it’s for the same reasons the fandom has regarding Rush Duels: the lack of variety and repetition. If you look back at several duels between prominent characters or their deck listings from Zexal-VRAINS, then you’ll see how they all use cards with similar effects to make it easier to summon a monster from the Extra Deck, such as monsters that can be treated as two monsters to Xyz or Link Summon or cards that can affect a monster’s level for a Synchro or Xyz Summon. Compare that to GX and 5D’s, where despite multiple characters using Fusion or Synchro Monsters respectively, the number of characters whose decks revolve around either of those summoning methods is less than a dozen.

Somewhat on the same topic, do the improvements to the female cast really belong under Author's Saving Throw? They're undeniably present, but the staff haven't made any statement as trying to do better with them. Would they be better under Win Back the Crowd? Or is there a different trope that would suit that?

Pasting here for discussion. Author's Saving Throw is for when the creative team confirm they did this in response to criticism. There has been no statement as to whether they have done so for SEVENS. Is there another trope that this information can go under, given that it is relevant?

• Author's Saving Throw:
  • After ARC-V's and VRAINS' particular handling on their characters resulted in many being Demoted to Extra or end up Out of Focus, SEVENS seems to have found a balance, giving many of its supporting cast A Day in the Limelight episode, including those who were initially introduced as background characters, while also keeping all of the main cast in focus rather than just keeping them as The Hero or The Lancer. Albeit this has lead to Luke's Base-Breaking Character status for his overly good treatment compared to past Joey-styled characters.
  • This also gives us possibly the best female cast in all of Yu-Gi-Oh!. In the previous series, most of the female cast, especially the heroines, start with a strong showing but would then drop in focus and plot relevance after a certain point, especially when their dueling record takes massive hit due to being sidelined or jobbing. Additionally, they’d often be portrayed as being more mature than most of the male cast but as a result, would lack more to their characters beyond being skilled duelists. In comparison, SEVENS does a better job in fleshing out their female cast. Romin for example is not only an active duelist with a consistent dueling record, she is also a fun character with her own quirks and hobbies that balances out the absurdity of Yuga, Luke, and Gakuto, and it doesn't stop with her. Asana is not only one of the few female major antagonists, but she is also a sympathetic and strong character in her own right, especially after her Character Development where she befriends Yuga. Tiger, Mimi, and Ranze also deserve a special mention, as while they may not be as prominent as the other two, they are very memorable and fleshed-out characters who stay relevant regardless.

A Memetic Loser is a character the fandom remembers for their supposed "lameness", flanderizing a mistake a character made or how they were defeated in a shameful way. Yuga losing to three of the main antagonists and to two of the main characters doesn’t mean this trope applies to him.

And Yuga is around for a shorter time than Yamcha and Ash and lost plenty more than that. Luke Romin Luke.

Plus its two to one for memetic loser. Honestky if we get two more on side to your no, or a 70% yes rate in.general I will put it back.

You seem to think Yuga losing means this trope applies to him when it doesn’t. He’s written to be the exact opposite of Yusaku, who went the whole series without a loss, so it’s not that surprising Yuga would end up losing quite a few duels. Also, him losing to Neiru, Asana, and Yuo because they unveiled either a Maximum or Fusion monster established them as hurdles for Yuga to overcome.

That’s not how this works. You don’t get to re-add the example unless you have proof to back it up. Even if some fans think that, that’s not enough of a reason for it.

It implies fans meme a character as worse than they actually are. Heck your own defense adds to that argument. That is what those like us two pro ML trope are doing according to you, right?

You are one to talk about that rule with your anti extra deck ASF troping. At least i can piint to another human being. Also this is the opinion trope section for sevens, so opinions go here

What you’ve been doing is adding biased opinions with nothing concrete to support them.

If all you have to go on is “being unhappy with the way Yuga lost”, then you don’t have much of a case here. Having someone wide agree with you doesn’t mean it validates your opinion without anything more to support it. Maybe try fact-checking for a change instead of relying on lazy excuses.

As ive said before, at least I can cite stuff like youtube comments and other tropers. You cant cite anything but your feelings.

And it would not just be that. Its the fact its a pattern and something fans tend to do to jobbers and frequent losers

Last time I checked, You Tube comments weren’t a valid source. A valid source would be, oh I don’t know, the episode listings for fans who think the thirteen episode arcs counted as separate seasons. And it doesn’t matter how many agree with you if you don’t anything to back up your reasoning.

I already explained to you via PM how that example I added was based more on observation, specifically from how the duels are portrayed, rather than my opinion. In other words, I did this little you might want to try sometime called “fact-checking”.

Yuga losing to Neiru and Asana’s Maximum Monsters and Yuo’s Fusion Monster aren’t enough for the trope to count. Plus, with the season still ongoing, there’s no telling if Yuga will lose another duel or if he’ll lose to an opponent using a new monster.

.....This the YMMV page about a trope that is about memes and jokes and snark. Someone isn't a Memetic Loser because of anything approaching logical. Ash has won multiple leagues and done plenty well elsewhere yet you ask the memes how good he is. It is about opinions, and hey, there are people (like the two who are pro Memetic Loser Yuga) who believe he qualifies for the trope.

Again, your observations. Just yours. Somehow that seems to matter to you more than what everyone else thinks and feels and observes in the show and the fandom reaction at large. And you keep ignoring clear points like 'Yuga's lost to Luke twice and to Romin, so that's six losses in a fairly short period of time.

(For comparisons Yuma lost eight matches in the present/onscreen in that time, while also having a lot of those matches being far less serious in stakes than all of Yuga's matches. I mean two of them were fun duels with Lilybot and one was a intended loss while possessed by 96. Plus he got a lot more duels to get wins so I'd be curious to see his win percentage compared to Yuga)

Also on the whole 'arc/season' thing, I'd actually be curious how that works out as many shows have 13 episode seasons, or 26, so by many standards Sevens has had multiple seasons.

There’s a difference between an observation and an opinion. An observation would be listing off the pros and cons for Rush Duels on Broken Base. An opinion would be adding Yuga under Memetic Loser simply because your unhappy with his losses, especially if you got that off of a You Tube comment. By that logic that trope would also apply to Chazz, who dueled Jaden six times but lost each one, including the one duel they didn’t, Leo, who lost six out of his nine duels, Yuma, who lost eight duels, and Skye, who lost five out of her nine duels, and yet that trope isn’t listed for either of them. And again, it doesn’t matter how many agree with you if the trope doesn’t apply to him.

And these are just your opinions. And again, observations differ from opinions in that their based off of what was shown rather than by fan reaction. And unlike how you’ve been ignoring clear points, like how You Tube comments aren’t a valid source, or how Yuga is meant to be Yusaku’s opposite, I haven’t ignored Yuga’s losses to Luke and Romin as I’ve brought them up already, which you’d notice had you been paying attention.

The thirteen episode arcs in SEVENS are, again, not separate seasons just because a new arc takes place immediately after the last one. Unless a show is specifically stated to be a one or two-cour series, then every episode aired within that season are still counted as part of the season. The Virtual World and Battle City arcs from the third season of the original series, as well as the Grand Championship and Dawn of the Duel arcs from the fifth season, are still counted as one season despite featuring two different arcs for both, as is the Dark Signers arc from 5D’s still as part of the first season.

What’s the definition of proof for YMMV and differentiates it from proof for non-YMMV tropes? It’s very clear that this discussion won’t go anywhere until we’re on the same page about the answer to this question.

For starters, this trope is usually used to describe the following seasons or adaptations coming after a specific season or series in a franchise, not for short 12-13 episode arcs spread out in one season. What’s more, you included that trope before the season had even ended. You also never gave any specific reasons as to WHY the Maximum Arc was better or what made it better than the succeeding two arcs, especially if your reasoning involves going off of You Tube comments.

The main area is the argument of watchers disliking the Rush Duels because they tend to be written in a specific pattern and are often repetitive: a issue I've noticed brought up on Youtube. Thus being part of the negative broken base.

That is community feedback so B.B I'd say.

The structure is very similar, to the point where you can pretty much predict who wins based on who takes the first turn most of the time, though there are exceptions. Maybe it might have been similar for previous entries in the franchise, but those have largely been over the course of multiple episodes as opposed to one, so it's significantly more noticeable in SEVENS.

While the formula may be more noticeable due to the lack of multipart duels compared to the previous series, it’s still been prevalent since at least 5D’s or Zexal. If anything, this should be on the YMMV for the whole anime franchise as opposed to just SEVENS.

The Formula is not absent in those series but in Sevens it is REALLY noticeable. It's like the meme about levels and 'still taking damage': it's in other series in the franchise but it is most pronounced in Arc-V

The difference with the “still taking damage” meme though is that while is was done before in previous series, it was overused within Arc-V, which differs from the formula the anime has been using being noticeable in SEVENS.

So...it really seems more a problem for the Dueling structure rather than the show in its entirety, hence the Enjoy the Story, Skip the Game entry, which honestly seems to be more accurate.

That does sound more accurate now that you mention it.

If you want to watch a comedy or plot show it probably works, but as a dueling show....I'v also noticed that it seems to be a show that a lot of updating is limited like a reverse Iron Blooded Orphans. Speaking of which...(and be free to find a better trope to describe what I mean)