Also, the combat system in II is just spam triangle or reflega to win. I love both II and III but the combat in III is leagues ahead of it
It is if you play on anything other than Critical, yeah. Plus the same complaints can be (and have been) levied at III anyway with Fire spam and all the combat freebies.
Edited by Karxrida If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Lemme just summon Simba and win the game.
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Yeah, both the combats in II and III can have the same complaints, but when both are compared at their best then III has the better one
Let's talk about Xehanort and how his Ass Pull and Unintentionally Unsympathetic entries are wrong and should be removed, especially in light of the mistranslation. Firstly, let us take into account the greatest source of evidence, the BBS secret reports. In these (specifically review Reports IV, VIII, and IX), Xehanort outright SAYS that he desires both balance and satiating his curiosity about the Keyblade War, and that Kingdom Hearts can purge the world and make it balanced. He had already satiated his curiosity about the Keyblade War and is now trying to make the world balanced. When it comes to using darkness as a source of power, this has a simple answer. Balance. Xehanort uses darkness so that he can balance both darkness and light. This is not directly stated, but is an easy assumption to make knowing that balance is what Xehanort desires. Since everybody is always going on about light and wanting to use it, SOMEONE needs to use darkness to balance it out. His problem has always been with an overabundance of light, so he is not a Hypocrite This negates Ass Pull in its entirety.
As for Unintentionally Unsympathetic, on top of the whole "Xehanort seems like a hypocrite" bit which is debunked by the negation of the Ass Pull entry, nobody but Eraqus ever forgives Xehanort for anything he has done. Not Terra. Not Ventus. Not Sora. JUST Eraqus, who we already know is lenient with his old friend. Xehanort never makes any apologies because he doesn't believe he did anything wrong, and nobody but Eraqus ever forgives him for anything. And as for his acting like a Graceful Loser, what is so wrong with that? He made plans upon plans, and Sora defeated him even after everything. Xehanort knows when he's beat, and he was HANDILY beaten by Sora. There's nothing wrong with bowing out after that. He tried his damnedest, but in the end, Sora still prevailed, so he respected that.
It is for these reasons that I believe both of these entries should be removed, and I do hope you all agree.
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We can emphasize more that the actual problem is the translation, but I'm completely against deleting the Ass Pull entry because what happens in the English script is not internally consistent, full stop. In BBS, Xehanort's motivation is given as "there's too much light, more darkness please". In KH 3, he talks about darkness as a corrupting force that threatens the light, so he'll reset everything to fully purge the darkness. He's not about balance at all suddenly. The speech is nothing but anti-darkness, pro-light.
Agreed against removing the Ass Pull entry for the reasons urutapu gave. Though I am curious how, what did the translation do? This was different in the Japanese version?
https://twitter.com/GarikWheeler/status/1099041893919481856
This twitter thread started the discussion. I've yet to find an actual Japanese quote of the script anywhere. If I were really bored one day I suppose I could find the Japanese cutscene on Youtube and take a crack at it, but I am not a professional translator.
I don't agree with leaving it in ESPECIALLY because it's a mistranslation. The English script is wrong here, but that is not how it's supposed to be.
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We talk about differences in translation all over the site. It's also how a large majority of the audience experienced the work. We shouldn't pretend it doesn't exist.
Yeah, but I don't recall those cases being put on such negative YMMV entries that aren't specifically talking about the translations. From what I remember, whenever it has been a case that something like that was the result of a mistranslation, it was removed after that came to light.
And are there no objections to Unintentionally Unsympathetic being removed?
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I've seen a LOT of people say he's Unintentionally Unsympathetic, translation errors or not, especially on forums and the general KH fandom circuits.
Edited by lalalei2001 The Protomen enhanced my life.
The thing is, is the narrative supposed to evoke sympathy from us, the players in the first place? As you mentioned, nobody sympathize or forgave him sans Eraqus but what about us? How are we, the players supposed to feel for him?
I think it self-evident that we are supposed to feel sorry for him. His final moments are an old man mourning he was just trying to protect the worlds in his own misguided way, he gets a gentle talking down from Eraqus, and he gets to fade into the light with his old friend, restored to youth. As I type it, I realize that Xehanort's death kinda echos Darth Vader's in a sense, complete with the Force Ghost vision. That aside, I do think it is intended for players to sympathize with him, like "he really was just misguided but had good intentions after all".
Why was character rerailment readded to Sora when the same criticisms people had of him in DDD are not only the same criticisms they have now, but are in some instances more severe? Which I explained when I first removed the entry back in February.
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The stated reason was "The point wasn't that Sora wasn't an Idiot Hero, the point was that his other character traits were taken away in Dream Drop Distance and he got them back in this game." If you digress take to the Is this an example? thread (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=13543987200A54420100).
Edited by Ferot_Dreadnaught
I do believe that it is indeed Character Rerailment. Compare Sora in KH 2, to Sora in DDD, to Sora in KH 3. Many people complained that Sora was nothing but an idiot hero, without all of his attitude from the previous games. And then 3 came along and it gave him his attitude back, arguably it gave him even more sass, which is shown right away in the Hercules world ("Poor Hades. He thinks he can actually pull it off this time"). If that's not an example of character rerailment, I don't know what is.
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And many people are still saying the exact same thing. The criticisms went well beyond him occasionally being a smart ass. Are YMMV entries what 1 or 2 people think or what major parts of the fandom thinks?
Edited by deludedmusings
Sora was never NOT an idiot hero, which is the problem here. That was just turned Up To Eleven in DDD, and it was brought down in 3. Not my problem if people complain that he's always been an idiot hero, it's still rerailment.
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Level 9 Half-Elf Chirurgeon
None of my edits to the page are saving. Is it an issue with the page, the wiki software, or am I being penalized for something?
“Dude, sucking at something is the first step to being sorta good at something!” - Jake the Dog Hide / Show Replies
Edits have been blocked on this page due to leaks. They don't want people adding the leaks.
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Ah, okay. I wasn't planning on adding something leak-related (I'm staying away from them).
“Dude, sucking at something is the first step to being sorta good at something!” - Jake the Dog
Say, wasn't Mickey's reasons about the whole Aqua thing explained in 2.8's ending?
Why was a large part of the page removed without explanation?
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Kolasto removed some entries with an edit reason of "I'm going to regret this." (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/article_history.php?article=YMMV.KingdomHeartsIII#edit22417723) I assume he's trolling since he knows he's going to regret this action, but I might be wrong, he made some good-faith edits before this.
Edited by Piterpicher Currently mostly inactive. An incremental game I tested: https://galaxy.click/play/176 (Gods of Incremental)
Ferdinand Von Aegir fan
Would the situation for Terra getting his body back count as an Ass Pull? With what we know in game, there isn't much of an explanation.
Muramasa got.
Ideal and the Real
Could the Demon Tide's appearance in Twilight Town count as a Big-Lipped Alligator Moment? There's not really any context for its appearance. It just shows up, it's fought, and then it's gone. I feel like it was only left in because they showed it off in the very first trailer when it was still in very early development.
A total has-been.
Since the page is locked, I have to bring up something about the Unintentionally Unsympathetic entry here (SPOILER WARNING. Sorry, spoilers tags aren't working for me.)
It says "then being Easily Forgiven for all the Moral Event Horizon things he did." Except this is false: in the game, the sole person who acts forgiving towards Xehanort is Eraqus, who is already dead and was like a brother to Xehanort in life who always was ridiculously trusting and forgiving of him even after he did stuff like make clear he sought to start another Keyblade War and use dark powers to scar Eraqus' face. Approximately no currently living character in that scene expresses any forgiveness of Xehanort or any desire to forgive him for the things he's done. Sora, Donald, and Goofy are giving him a Death Glare the whole while as Sora gives him a Shut Up, Hannibal! in response to his Motive Rant, everyone is more confused than anything when Xehanort finally relinquishes the X-Blade to Sora thanks to Eraqus "checkmating" him, and there is quite visibly no emotion expressed from anyone as Xehanort and Eraqus' hearts turn young again and depart together to the life beyond. The scene did indeed attempt to evoke sympathy for Xehanort in the player, but it did not so for any of the characters sans the one who shares a history with him to start with.
Edited by ANewMan
I think Keyof Destiny needs to accept that many people think the game has an inferior combat system compared to II and leave the Contested Sequel entry alone.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with? Hide / Show Replies