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whereismytea
topic
07:36:09 AM Aug 24th 2011
I moved these two examples to the discussion page because they seemed somewhat off to me, and I thought it would be better to hash it out here and re-add if necessary later.

  • Heroic Self-Deprecation: Kaoru has very low self-esteem and holds himself to impossibly high standards.
  • Guilt Complex: Once something goes wrong, Kaoru will immediately blame himself for it and use it for further self-depreciation, regardless of whether it is his fault or not.

I'm not entirely sure it's right to say Kaoru has low self-esteem. He's very insecure, but he's also really confident in other areas (work especially) and most of his issues are directly related to relationships rather than life as a whole. He's also not the sort of "hero" that fits the Heroic Self-Deprecation description, I think. As for the guilt complex thing I'm having trouble thinking of instances where he blames himself for things he's not responsible for. Can you give any examples? He only really seems to feel guilty about his jealously but I wouldn't call that a Guilt Complex.

And unrelated to the above, I've been noticing some examples are more about the other works in this universe than these three. It might be worthwhile making a separate entry for them and moving them so they are explained a little better (since I'm not a fan of the Chiharu/Kazuki storyline I'm the wrong person to do it). Just a suggestion. ^^
13secondstomidnight
10:05:34 AM Sep 1st 2011
Yeah that's fine. Those two seemed a little off anyway, so deleting them is a good idea. Also, there does have to be a cut-off point where the storylines mesh, but I did try to only include bits and pieces that I thought related to Kaoru and Diago's storyline/s. If anything does seem too specific to a different storyline, then anyone please just take it out. The issue is that Kaoru and Diago do appear in other books where there's actually a continuity with their 3 main ones, so it is a bit of a blurred line (and there is a huge level of cross-over in this universe* ). It might be better to make a separate entry for the entire series in the long run, and have this entry as a link, but I haven't read enough of the entire series to do it. Volunteers are welcome, though!
whereismytea
07:34:03 PM Sep 1st 2011
edited by whereismytea
The only problem I see with making a page for the whole rest of the series is that though almost every main couple shows up in another's story, some of them are following pretty different plot threads from the other which could be confusing. The series also doesn't really have a title which makes it difficult to, well, call it anything. Maybe we could make a page about Fujisaki Kou instead and put a list of general tropes that appear in these (and other) works and link from there?

I could probably create a page on Happy Yarou Wedding when I get time, and maybe Aikata. That would leave Playboy Amour and the Chiharu x Kazuki volumes (which could all be one page) if anyone's up to the task.
13secondstomidnight
08:39:18 AM Sep 3rd 2011
Yeah I think that's a better idea. I have no idea why this series doesn't have a name, but it makes it difficult and confusing (I only realised Aikata was part of the series when Chiharu suddenly showed up in the middle of chapter 1 and then I had to go back and look through the Chiharu x Kazuki novels - which I've only read about half - to try to find out who Jun and Jin were!). Having a page for Fujisaki Kou is probably a better idea altogether. She is a fairly prolific modern manga-ka so if we make a page on her, we could put all the manga she's published there, have links from the Chiharu x Kazuki books going to one page, and Aikata and its sequel to another, and then more people can fill in the blanks as they go along.

However, I don't know whether putting Playboy Amour in with the Chiharu x Kazuki stories is a good idea because Kazuki doesn't show up at all, and Chiharu shows up for about 1 page. In fact, Kaoru and Diago are far more involved in that book, with it showing a certain amount of their relationship development that happens between Junai no Seinen and Men's Love, and Kaoru being involved as a sort of underhandedly-helpful antagonist to that story's narrator (much like he acted towards Kazuki when he was first introduced). So it might be a good idea to put that on a separate page altogether, with relevant links back to ...Virgin Love.

whereismytea
10:39:38 AM Sep 3rd 2011
Haha, I just realized how confusing that sounded, sorry. Playboy Amour does need its own page if it's done at all. All the titles that are Chiharu x Kazuki centric need to be together, is more what I meant because that's a lot of titles.

I've started amassing some tropes for HYW.

I wonder if we could create a joint character sheet for all the works? It might be possible with judicious use of redirects to get them interlinked (but I've never tried it before...but now I kind of want to).
13secondstomidnight
03:56:40 AM Sep 4th 2011
A joint character sheet would be a really good idea considering the massive amount of cross-over. Otherwise the same points are going to be made on multiple pages. I don't know how we'd go about something like that though. If a central Fujjisaki Kou page was made, we could link it directly off that, I suppose? That might make the most sense, but I'm not sure. I've never even created a single entry/page so I'm kinda out of my depth here ^^;.

I mean, I think I could probably do the Playboy Amour entry, although I'd have to look up how... Does a page need to go through some sort of draft approval stage through the forums first, or do you just go ahead and click "edit page" and start from scratch?
whereismytea
05:12:07 AM Sep 4th 2011
edited by whereismytea
We might be able to do that. I also wonder whether it would be possible to create a character sheet for something that doesn't exist. Like if we tried to create one with a name like "Todou Series" or something so that if anyone creates pages for her unrelated works they don't get mixed up. Either way, if we can get two works and a page for Fujisaki Kou up I'd have no problem doing that.

Creating a page is easy technically speaking, though it's a load of effort timewise if you want to do it right. Minimum you should have a paragraph of description and at least three tropes when you create a page, but generally I think it's better to put more effort in than that. One thing to remember is to always wick! If the page has many tropes but the examples aren't on the trope pages they are from it will get zero traffic, and having many inbounds means a page is healthy on tvtropes. But like I said, technically for a works page it's as easy as clicking edit and then, once you have created it, listing it under the Manga and Boys Love indexes. No need to get approval for this type of thing.

(And one suggestion if you do decide to create some pages, there's been an effort to put series on their proper namespaces, so make sure you add Manga/ before whatever page you create—or else you could just click on the red links on the ...Virgin Love page, they're already set up for that).

whereismytea
12:07:02 PM Sep 24th 2011
Okay, I've got the Fujisaki Kou page, and the character sheet up and running. I'm going to need some help fleshing out some of them like Chiharu, Kazuki, Ian and Manabu. It's still a work in progress. I think I've got all the titles each character appears in right, but if you notice anything missing or mistaken, do go ahead and tweak it (especially the Yarou trio, as I can't remember where they appear other than in the first two). I can add the Aikata characters later.
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