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MrDeath
topic
12:38:39 PM Apr 13th 2012
So, um, am I the only person here who's read The Omen Machine thus far? It's been out for a while, so we should probably start adding tropes from it.
FuzzyWulfe
11:48:12 AM Jul 6th 2012
If it's part of the world, go ahead and add it and whatever tropes you can think of. The only book I've read outside the main series was "Bone Debt." I think that's what it was called; too lazy to look it up.
ArcadesSabboth
topic
09:45:14 AM Dec 12th 2011
Removing this. It appears to be verbal tick misuse. Someone familiar with the work can wick the correct parts of this to the new trope, The Usual Adversaries.

  • Goddamn Orks: Goddamn Imperial Order troops. Goddamn gars. Goddamn Mriswith. Goddamn Sisters of the Dark.
VoxTheHero
topic
10:21:46 PM Nov 27th 2011
edited by VoxTheHero
Shouldn't The Law of Nines have its own page? There are very few tropes mentioning it at all and I just finished putting up an example from it in Orderlies Are Creeps. I think it's too good a book to just let it slide through the cracks like that.

Also why are the tropes and characters from The Omen Machine not done yet? Its been several months.
JeepEep
topic
11:40:10 AM Oct 22nd 2011
Why'd we get rid of the old WM Gs? They were hilarious.
MrDeath
05:01:17 PM Oct 22nd 2011
Because they were mostly blatant bashing, rather than WM Gs.
Frostfef
topic
09:02:03 AM Jan 20th 2011
Not really a Topic, But I'm curious: who agrees with me that the Sword of Truth seires is overall: a good Book series, regardless of any complaints you may have?
MrDeath
09:06:37 AM Jan 20th 2011
I do. As I've mentioned before, there's a couple books that I'll acknowledge were bad ideas, but I enjoyed the hell out of the rest of it.
Ronfar
03:54:04 AM Jan 21st 2011
edited by Ronfar
Aside from the (really big) problems with Naked Empire, my biggest complaint is that the Goodkind wasn't able to make the rest of the books live up to the standards set by the first two. Again, aside from Naked Empire, they weren't bad, but they never got better than a 7 out of 10 on the Four Point Scale.
Frostfef
09:08:20 AM Jan 25th 2011
Yeah, I see your points. I think one reason that the series seems flawless to me is that I didnt read the flawed parts, for example: in Naked Empire: I only read the parts where Richard or Kahlan were involved, another example: the book with the dorminine dirtch or w/e, I didnt read much from the points of view of the inhabitants of the city, or the soldiers, or etc. I tend to focus on the main characters and their storylines.

Plus: What exactly is the problem with naked empire? Like i said: i mainly read Richard & Kahlans experiences in that book, and it seemed like a pretty good book. What sucked so badly
MrDeath
09:19:05 AM Jan 25th 2011
The problems with Naked Empire are, in no particular order:

1. Richard's no longer needing to abstain from meat. Originally, the enforced vegetarianism was something his gift imposed on him, explained as a price he paid for all the killing he had to do, implying that killing wasn't something inherently good. This book "establishes" that the not-eating-meat thing was something Richard imposed on himself in the mistaken belief that killing might be wrong. The book posits that, basically, Richard is unambiguously right to kill whoever he feels needs to be killed. Instead of having to question his beliefs and consider the views of his enemies (which Zedd advised him to do in the first book), nope, Richard is just totally right about everything and his enemies are so wrong that killing them is the only right thing to do.

2. The grade A Ass Pull that is Richard figuring out the antidote to the poison, apparently by "taste". And adjusting it for increased dosage because of his advanced state of poisoning. After telling the Bandakarans for the entire book that knowledge doesn't just come out of nowhere.

3. The Bandakarans themselves are, well, kinda stupid, and exist to be political strawmen for Richard to knock down—their way of doing things makes little sense, and is self-contradictory, from what I remember.

4. The peace-protester-slaughter. This could have been handled well; establish that Richard regrets what he has to do, etc. Instead, not just charging through them, but killing them outright is treated as the only moral and just thing to do.

It's this last bit that really puts it over the edge, and makes it clear that Goodkind was mainly using the book to vent his own political frustrations rather than writing his story.
iaregirl
topic
02:47:54 PM Sep 21st 2010
edited by iaregirl
Do I have permission to put a different quote, instead of the Naked Empire one? It seems like everyone hates that book anyway, so why quote it? I came across this one while reading Stone of Tears (I just started the series).

Richard: Do you know what adventure is?
Warren: An exciting experience.
Richard: Adventure is being scared to death, and not knowing if you will live or die, or if the ones you love will live or die. Adventure is being in trouble you don't know how to get out of.
Warren: I never thought about it like that.
Richard: Well, you think on it, because I'm about to start an adventure.

or something that looks like this:

"Do you know what adventure is, Warren?"
Warren nodded, the smile still on his face. "An exciting experience."
"Adventure is being scared to death, and not know if you will live or die, or if the ones you love will live or die. Adventure is being in trouble you don't know how to get out of."
Warren fumbled with the braiding on his sleeve. "I never thought about it like that."
"Well, you think on it," Richard said, "because I'm about to start an adventure."

or just plain

"Adventure is being scared to death, and not know if you will live or die, or if the ones you love will live or die. Adventure is being in trouble you don't know how to get out of."

Yea or nay?
MrDeath
03:08:03 PM Sep 21st 2010
The Naked Empire quote is there because, for good or ill, it's emblematic of the how Goodkind takes the book series later on, albeit it's definitely the most extreme example; no other book takes it quite that far.

That said, I don't think the quote you put up really sums up the series either.
Ronfar
03:53:35 PM Sep 21st 2010
What he said. Leave the Naked Empire quote there.
iaregirl
04:11:54 PM Sep 21st 2010
edited by iaregirl
Okeydoke. Just putting it out there.
MrDeath
topic
09:40:25 AM Aug 23rd 2010
I'm glad we've finally got a picture, but I'm not sure that should be it. Mainly because it's got Verna standing next to Richard rather than Kahlan, which I think would be better to represent the books.
iaregirl
09:37:59 PM Sep 20th 2010
Wait, are you sure that's Sister Verna? I mean, sure, Richard spends the majority of his time with Sister Verna is Stone of Tears, but she looks too pretty to be anyone other than Kahlan. And doesn't Sister Verna have medium-length curly hair?
iaregirl
10:05:48 PM Sep 20th 2010
edited by iaregirl
I'm in the middle of Stone of Tears right now, and just realized that, based on the description in chapter 62, the woman is neither Sister Verna nor Kahlan, but Pasha. I definitely motion for a new picture. One with Kahlan.

She was in her wispy maroon dress, the one with the V-shaped neckline...she had on a useful-looking violet cloak. She was wearing big gold loop earrings. Her belt matched her necklace, with the same kind of gold medallions.
muninn
11:49:04 PM Sep 20th 2010
appearances aside, everybody I know generally considers that to be Verna on the cover.

I'd suggest the paperback cover image from Wizard's first Rule, but the characters are kind of off in the distance.
Swish
07:07:40 AM Sep 21st 2010
I thought it was Verna as well until I realized it was the scene towards the end of the book where where Pasha meets Gratch and takes off running. Verna is never near Richard on the vista looking out towards the tower. And Gratch doesn't ever come that close until the day Pasha follows Richard out there. The only other cover "worth" putting up is the new Wizard's First Rule paperback cover, but I think that'd create more controversy than it's worth.
MrDeath
08:40:36 AM Sep 21st 2010
Ah, my bad. Been a while since I read the book, so I'd forgotten entirely about Pasha meeting Gratch.

As for the new paperback, why, is it the one with the picture from the show? If it is, yeah, that wouldn't fit this page.
Swish
12:52:48 PM Sep 21st 2010
Yes, the "new" Wizard's First Rule paperback cover is the one with the pictures from the show. It is the only cover with Richard and Kahlan on it. But it wouldn't fit the page due to it basically being the Legend of the Seeker cover.

I think this one is alright, but I am disappointed that it's the only one that works...
MrDeath
01:23:50 PM Sep 21st 2010
Is there any other official art of the series? I had a copy of Wizard's First Rule once that showed what seemed to be the ending, with Richard and Kahlan about to fly off on Scarlet. The art, though, wasn't all that good, come to think of it.

And the only bit of fanart I've ever seen is from Warren and Zedd's "old fashioned firefight", but there may be more.
iaregirl
02:56:09 PM Sep 21st 2010
You mean this?
MrDeath
03:05:40 PM Sep 21st 2010
Yeah, that's the one. I always sorta wondered what the hell Chase is fighting off to the side there.
iaregirl
02:27:36 PM Sep 22nd 2010
Yeah, that's a little weird. I think it'd be okay at least if it was cropped a little. And maybe bigger. Except that Kahlan's hair is kind of short. And it looks like Richard's sword is through Scarlet's neck.
iaregirl
02:33:34 PM Sep 22nd 2010
edited by iaregirl
How about Soul of the Fire? Or Blood of the Fold/cropped? Or this, the one on the far right (cropped)?
MrDeath
09:17:52 AM Sep 29th 2010
I'd go with the cropped Blood of the Fold one. Much as I like Faith of the Fallen, having the page picture of the series be what's essentially (if not literally) Richard and Kahlan portayed as perfect marble-carved gods might be...a bit much.
iaregirl
04:32:50 PM Sep 30th 2010
Alright. I'll change it now.
iaregirl
04:48:53 PM Sep 30th 2010
Success!
Frostfef
09:00:33 AM Jan 20th 2011
I personally, Like the temple of the winds one: cropped so that it is only Richard and Cara. While it may not show Kahlan, it depicts Richard with hi War wizard outfit, his golden cape: it shows his power.
VoxTheHero
10:14:40 PM Nov 27th 2011
I agree with Frostfef. I think the Temple of the Winds cover would be best for it. It shows us the only close up of Richard and Cara, and he's wearing his badass War Wizard outfit.
GermanTroper
topic
05:51:02 PM Aug 21st 2010
Dear tropers, I am disappoint! I've just borrowed the first audio book from a friend of mine, expecting all kinds of epic lulz ala Twilight, but here I go and find this is actually somewhat decent - I'm currently at the chapter where Richard gets "appointed" seeker, and it's actually kind of awesome. I don't know if it sticks, but from what I've gathered the series went south somewhere around the eighth book, the often cited Naked Empire. Please tell me if I'm right or wrong or merely so deranged that I'm enjoying something which isn't there...
muninn
08:18:13 PM Aug 21st 2010
Well, first off, some people do like the series non-ironically.

Speaking as one such person, books 1-2 were pretty good (Stone of Tears (2) might be better if you haven't read Wheel of Time, since I've heard they're similar).

3-5 weren't as good, but were still okay

6 (Faith of the Fallen) seems to be a YMMV thing. It's one of my favorites, but about half of it is an objectivist author tract and that bothers some people.

7 (Pillars of Creation) is kind of drawn-out and tangential to the main series.

8 (Naked Empire) is the low point of the series. It's not where the series "went south", it's more like where the series stopped going south. 9-11 are an improvement, though perhaps not back to the beginning of the series.

If you're looking for "epic lulz", you'll probably find it in Naked Empire. Most of the rest of the time, it's just more regularly bad, rather than laughably bad.
Ronfar
10:10:54 PM Aug 22nd 2010
What he said. I liked the first two books, but the rest of the series simply isn't as good. And Naked Empire - it's not the kind of thing you get "epic lulz" from. It's the kind of thing that makes you recoil in horror at the realization that people who think that way actually exist.
MrDeath
09:39:44 AM Aug 23rd 2010
edited by MrDeath
I for the most part agree with Muninn. Personally, the low points for me are Naked Empire (its only redeeming feature being half the supporting cast showing up all at once to rescue Zedd and Adie, and it's otherwise not relevant to the rest of the series; it's as close as you get to a standalone novel in the series.) and Soul of the Fire (just because it's one big downer from start to end), but in the latter's case, I can't recommend skipping it because it's needed as a set-up for Faith of the Fallen.

The series gets a lot of hate around here because people tend to act like Naked Empire is the only book, or that it represents the whole series. It's really more of a Creator Breakdown induced Big Lipped Alligator Moment than a proper entry.

Also, yes, the bit when Richard is named is pretty cool. I was a little disappointed that Legend of the Seeker didn't go with Zedd's line there, "Fair warning to those living and those dead! The Seeker is named!"
Frostfef
09:57:14 AM Jan 18th 2011
I agree with muninn: But personally, The Sword of Truth series is my absolute favorite book series, And most of the points and arguments that I have noticed are that Terry Goodkind often strayed from the storyline on tangents of his/ his characters' opinions. But: I think that if people disagree with those opinions, they shouldnt bother him, or the Sword of Truth fans about it.
VoxTheHero
10:19:55 PM Nov 27th 2011
edited by VoxTheHero
This book series is my favorite novel series ever, Faith of the Fallen being my personal favorite (Might be because I share some NOT ALL of the objectivist views. It fundamentally makes sense, you earn your keep. You cannot expect others to do everything for you.)

Naked Empire and Soul of the Fire were also my least favorites, but TG more than made up for Naked Empire with the Ja'La tournament in Phantom and Confessor. In a way, he rescued his series from that embarassing book with the Chainfire Trilogy and The Omen Machine.
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