Discussion FranchiseOriginalSin / FateGrandOrder

I'm not sure why the below entry is considered valid to be on here. I don't really see this complaint anywhere.

• The same powercreep has also applied to Servant's abilities in the narrative, as they routinely get Story-Breaker Powers without any accompanying drawbacks. While earlier Fate works had overpowered Servants, there had always been an inherent drawback to limit them because they ultimately needed to be beaten by other Servants. Gilgamesh in Fate Stay/Night was outright stated to have a Story-Breaker Power but was pathologically limited by his overwhelming Pride and wasn't that skilled at close combat compared to other Servants. Karna in Fate/Apocrypha had an Armorof Invincibility, was a Lightning Bruiser in combat, and wielded a Weaponof Mass Destruction as his Noble Phantasm, but he had such a ruinously high mana upkeep that he could paralyze his master even if not fighting at full power. Plus his strongest Noble Phantasm left him incredibly vulnerable after use. Ozymandias in Fate/Prototype had pushed the threshold a bit, requiring five servants cooperate to take him down, but was only truly invincible within his pyramid. Fate Grand/Order has introduced a variety of Servants with similarly broken powers and no real drawbacks such that it's almost impossible to imagine them working in a traditional Holy Grail War. Scathach has Complete Immortality and is a Master Swordsman with an insta-kill Noble Phantasm and another that lets her turn into a goddess. Quetzalcoatl can No-Sell attacks from good or neutral servants, has Noble Phantasms on par with Ozymandias, and is an incredibly skilled Lightning Bruiser. First Hassan is strong and skilled enough to effortless overpower a full strength Gawain, stealthy enough to sneak in to and out of Ozymandias' palace after beheading him, and can go Beyondthe Impossible and kill anything including concepts. None of them have anything like the drawbacks that accompanied Gilgamesh or even Karna. All of the above showed up in "Observer on Timeless Temple;" many later Servants have been just as strong or stronger so as to either deal with the scale of the problems in later chapters or provide appropriate challenges for them. Some of these are intentional (none of the above are summonable in a normal Grail War's context), but it's still created a sense of ever-growing escalation that leaves the power ceiling too high for most "normal" Servants to keep up.

Muramasa got. Hide / Show Replies

So, here's the problem: arguing that "a majority of the characters being gender-flipped lacked the nuance" of the original Saber is first, disingenuous in the extreme: Saber was a main heroine in a game that had an orders-of-magnitude smaller cast and thus got orders-of-magnitude more screentime, so of course she was more developed and fleshed out. Second, it's actually pretty arguable within the context of grand order, where only a handful of characters don't examine the genderflipping (and of that handful, a decent chunk are just Nero/Drake, both of whom are, in the current write-up, unfairly grandfathered in).

Third, it tries to make the argument that an unfairly-large portion of the cast consists of genderflipped characters, which is just factually incorrect. I can pull the numbers if we must. If it doesn't do so directly, it does so through attempted justifications for Drake and Nero where there are none.

I thus motion that the entry be once again rewritten or moved wholesale to Fate/EXTRA.

As to the difficulty section, I agree with most of the overall cuts, though I would argue that restricting Supports, while less of an issue for me personally, is a major factor in some of the later chapters' difficulty spikes. At the same time, it's better covered under Scrappy Mechanic. My main complaint is that identifying Agartha as the source of the shift is... inaccurate? You never hear complaints about it the same way you do Camelot or Lostbelts 3 and 5.

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That "trim and adjustment" removes a lot of important and useful information and replaces it with complaining. I would prefer to revert that edit to my original write-up, which discusses where grand order does it right and where it does it wrong, rather than take it for granted that doing it is wrong, as the current incarnation does. If there are specific examples you would prefer be included, such as Lampshade Hanging or Handwaves, I am open to this.

Edited by SpectralTime Hide / Show Replies

Re: Agartha, I think it should be clarified that there was no editorial oversight because it seems to be conflating having the same themes with a line of continuity directly from the eroge to Agartha when that's... not really the case (you could *definitely* make that argument for CCC/the Lostbelts/several events, but not EOR afaik). https://oneofepisodes.wordpress.com/2017/03/22/translation-4gamer-interview-with-kinoko-nasu-and-yosuke-shiokawa-on-fgo-march-2017-part-2/ (URL issues aside, this is a link to a translated interview where Nasu directly states that he didn't write EOR chapters)

I dunno, I feel like there is a point buried in there, but the idea Nasu came up with the scenario and put pen to paper is patently false information as far as things stand.

Edited by Nouct Hide / Show Replies