Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 10 (click to see context) from:
* A common complaint about story chapters following Atlantis in Part 2 is their difficulty, ranging from {{Difficulty Spike}}s that bottleneck progression to [[ThatOneLevel virtually entire chapters being considered unfair in design]], requiring guides and/or specific combinations of Servants, Craft Essences, or even card distributions to proceed. Such difficulty spikes are nothing new; the Camelot chapter was infamous upon release for the bosses having unique buffs or abilities that made each major fight incredibly difficult. Still, Camelot was also meticulously designed to let even shallow-rostered players pass with proper preparation; Euryale could famously trivialize the first and hardest of these bosses in Gawain, for instance. But by the midpoint of Part 2, several fights began to be criticized for the sheer brutality of their difficulty all-but demanding the player have access to specific kinds of high-rarity Servants or Craft Essences that newer players simply won't possess. This isn't helped by the game's sluggish release pace when it comes to new low-rarity Servants; after Mandricardo's release back in December 2019, it took about ''two and a half'' for there to be another permanent low rarity servant added into the gacha.
to:
* A common complaint about story chapters following Atlantis in Part 2 is their difficulty, ranging from {{Difficulty Spike}}s that bottleneck progression to [[ThatOneLevel virtually entire chapters being considered unfair in design]], requiring guides and/or specific combinations of Servants, Craft Essences, or even card distributions to proceed. Such difficulty spikes are nothing new; the Camelot chapter was infamous upon release for the bosses having unique buffs or abilities that made each major fight incredibly difficult. Still, Camelot was also meticulously designed to let even shallow-rostered players pass with proper preparation; Euryale could famously trivialize the first and hardest of these bosses in Gawain, for instance. But by the midpoint of Part 2, several fights began to be criticized for the sheer brutality of their difficulty all-but demanding the player have access to specific kinds of high-rarity Servants or Craft Essences that newer players simply won't possess. This isn't helped by the game's sluggish release pace when it comes to new low-rarity Servants; after Mandricardo's release back in December 2019, it took about ''two and a half'' half years'' for there to be another permanent low rarity servant added into the gacha.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatisfying twist-for-twist's sake]]. Such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise; ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters, while Amakusa was introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and had solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could have figured out. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
to:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatisfying twist-for-twist's sake]]. Such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise; ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters, while Amakusa was introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and had solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could have figured out.out, mirroring the way Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to use clues to deduce the identity of one anothers' Servants. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and [[TheyWastedAPerfectlyGoodPlot less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been.been]]. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatisfying twist-for-twist's sake]]. Such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise; ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters, while Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and had solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
to:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatisfying twist-for-twist's sake]]. Such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise; ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters, while Amakusa being was introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and had solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've could have figured out. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 5 (click to see context) from:
* The game's overuse of [[HistoricalGenderFlip gender-flipping random historical and mythological figures]] has become a common criticism, with many gender-bent characters having [[HandWave little explanation]] for why they are done so or being given overly {{Stripperiffic}} designs. This issue began with Saber in ''Fate/stay night'', who was well received in part because [[UnbuiltTrope the creators were aware of the oddity of King Arthur secretly being a woman and treated it with some delicacy]]. Not only was she the only gender-flipped character in the cast, but her backstory was heavily informed by the differences that resulted from a girl assuming the role of King Arthur, with elements of the story being able to work with the alterations, such as providing additional context for Lancelot and Guinevere's affair and feeding her own feelings of inadequacy and failure. Combined with her having a modest design that could actually pass for a boy, and Arthur being more of a mythological figure than historical one, it was seen as a well thought out idea. Since then though, many characters became gender-flipped for weaker reasons, such ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' doing it to Emperor Nero and Francis Drake even though they're very well-documented historical figures and the roles they assumed would have been impossible for women in their societies; Nero in particular, as already mentioned, was gender-flipped not for any story reasons, but instead simply to act as [[{{Foil}} a contrast]] to Altria in both design and personality, whereas Francis Drake was given the explanation that she might actually be Queen Elizabeth I, who did the achievements after having traded places with the original Francis Drake, however it was never later elaborated on specifically, given the possible {{Retcon}} of just being too manly to be documented as a woman, leaving it with a nebulous EarlyInstallmentWeirdness. They were also both given racy and revealing character designs that left nothing of their gender to the imagination, making it impossible to imagine them ever passing for men. By the time of ''Grand Order'', characters seemed to be gender-flipped primarily because it was now what the series was famous for, with the majority of the characters who got gender-flipped lacking the same nuances that the original Saber did--only a small handful have made any attempt to make any sense of how a woman in the original figure's position could have worked, or, like Sanzang Xuanzang, come from an existing tradition of gender-flipping the character far older than Nasu--on top of trying to include as much {{Fanservice}} as possible. As a result, any time a historically male person is introduced and appears to be gender flipped, even if the game explores and plays with the idea (such as Van Gogh not actually being gender flipped, but rather [[spoiler:the Greek nymph Clytie using his memories and power]]), a decent bit of the community will react with annoyance because even if it isn't necessarily a gender flip, it often means a true version of the character may never materialize.
to:
* The game's overuse of [[HistoricalGenderFlip gender-flipping random historical and mythological figures]] has become a common criticism, with many gender-bent characters having [[HandWave little explanation]] for why they are done so or being given overly {{Stripperiffic}} designs. This issue began with Saber in ''Fate/stay night'', who was well received in part because [[UnbuiltTrope the creators were aware of the oddity of King Arthur secretly being a woman and treated it with some delicacy]]. Not only was she the only gender-flipped character in the cast, but her backstory was heavily informed by the differences that resulted from a girl assuming the role of King Arthur, with elements of the story being able to work with the alterations, such as providing additional context for Lancelot and Guinevere's affair and feeding her own feelings of inadequacy and failure. Combined with her having a modest design that could actually pass for a boy, and Arthur being more of a mythological figure than historical one, it was seen as a well thought out idea. Since then though, many characters became gender-flipped for weaker reasons, such ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' doing it to Emperor Nero and Francis Drake even though they're very well-documented historical figures and the roles they assumed would have been impossible for women in their societies; Nero in particular, as already mentioned, was gender-flipped not for any story reasons, but instead simply to act as [[{{Foil}} a contrast]] to Altria in both design and personality, whereas Francis Drake was given the explanation that she might actually be Queen Elizabeth I, who did the achievements after having traded places with the original Francis Drake, however it was never later elaborated on specifically, given the possible {{Retcon}} of just being too manly to be documented as a woman, leaving it with a nebulous EarlyInstallmentWeirdness. They were also both given racy and revealing character designs that left nothing of their gender to the imagination, making it impossible to imagine them ever passing for men. By the time of ''Grand Order'', characters seemed to be gender-flipped primarily because it was now what the series was famous for, with the majority of the characters who got gender-flipped lacking the same nuances that the original Saber did--only a small handful have made any attempt to make any sense of how a woman in the original figure's position could have worked, or, like Sanzang Xuanzang, come from an existing tradition of gender-flipping the character far older than Nasu--on top of trying to include as much {{Fanservice}} as possible. As a result, any time a historically male person is introduced and appears to be gender flipped, even if the game explores and plays with the idea (such as Van Gogh not actually being gender flipped, but rather [[spoiler:the Greek nymph Clytie using his memories and power]]), a decent bit of the community will react with annoyance because even if it isn't necessarily a gender flip, it often means a true "true" version of the character may will never materialize.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Removing as this bit is very complainy and unnecessary. The entry also has a lot of extra details that bloat it heavily. Hopefully this makes it flow naturally still.
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed, with the end result being ultimately satisfying solutions to their mysteries. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. (''Un''charitably, it's been seen as incredibly stupid and an unsatisfying resolution to the character's story, undermining all the character's previous motivations, and made even worse by being attached to a major character who's gotten tons of screentime across the main story for years, so that even politely ignoring it is impossible.) The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
to:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying unsatisfying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such sake]]. Such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. franchise; ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. characters, while Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. identity. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have and had solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed, with the end result being ultimately satisfying solutions to their mysteries.out. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. (''Un''charitably, it's been seen as incredibly stupid and an unsatisfying resolution to the character's story, undermining all the character's previous motivations, and made even worse by being attached to a major character who's gotten tons of screentime across the main story for years, so that even politely ignoring it is impossible.) The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed, with the end result being ultimately satisfying solutions to their mysteries. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. (''Un''charitably, it's been seen as incredibly stupid and an unsatisfying, undermining all the character's previous motivations, and made even worse by being attached to a major character who's gotten tons of screentime across the main story for years, so that even politely ignoring it is impossible.) The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
to:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed, with the end result being ultimately satisfying solutions to their mysteries. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. (''Un''charitably, it's been seen as incredibly stupid and an unsatisfying, unsatisfying resolution to the character's story, undermining all the character's previous motivations, and made even worse by being attached to a major character who's gotten tons of screentime across the main story for years, so that even politely ignoring it is impossible.) The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
To be clear, his Arts synergy and ability to contribute in C Es much more effectively than she can collectively mean he hasn't been completely obsoleted out.
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** To add salt to the wound, another group of servants are becoming known to be overtuned; the Anniversary servants (those released upon the FGO Anniversary Celebration event). Remember when Delight Works promised that Merlin would be the most powerful servant ever? Lasengle apparently decided that this vow did not apply to them. The release of Altria Caster blew the former premiere Arts support, Tamamo, out of the water. Her Noble Phantasm, that features a "super-invincibility" that could not be pierced, an attack buff and debuff cleanse for the entire party, can equal the entire skill line up of any other servant. Altria Caster's skills are also spectacular, with a powerful Arts buff, attack buff and NP gain... all packaged with a 50% NP battery. Also, remember Merlin? "The most powerful servant that would ever be created"? He was completely obsoleted by the next Anniversary servant, Koyanskaya of Light who finally enabled Buster teams to NP loop.
to:
** To add salt to the wound, another group of servants are becoming known to be overtuned; the Anniversary servants (those released upon the FGO Anniversary Celebration event). Remember when Delight Works promised that Merlin would be the most powerful servant ever? Lasengle apparently decided that this vow did not apply to them. The release of Altria Caster blew the former premiere Arts support, Tamamo, out of the water. Her Noble Phantasm, that features a "super-invincibility" that could not be pierced, an attack buff and debuff cleanse for the entire party, can equal the entire skill line up of any other servant. Altria Caster's skills are also spectacular, with a powerful Arts buff, attack buff and NP gain... all packaged with a 50% NP battery. Also, remember Merlin? "The most powerful servant that would ever be created"? He was completely obsoleted by the He's had more than enough rivals released since to put a laundry list of asterisks next Anniversary servant, to that title, like Koyanskaya of Light who finally enabled Buster teams to NP loop.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 17 (click to see context) from:
* Upon release of the first chapter of Ordeal Call, many players were critical about the story being underwhelming compared to previous chapters and felt like the quality is more akin to an average event story rather than a main story chapter. The thing is, the same could be said for FGO's first intermission arc, Epic of Remnant, since they also had a story of similar quality of Ordeal Call. Unlike Ordeal Call, however, it was written as if it was a PostScriptSeason, and it did have a legitimate hook to fall upon- namely, the whereabouts of the Demon God Pillars after Beast I's fall, so it was excused for those reasons, and the well-received ''VideoGame/FateExtra CCC'' crossover chapter was only a cherry on the top. Ordeal Call, on the other hand, had to follow with a less plausible and [[AssPull completely out of nowhere]] plot point in which Chaldea is forced to undertake the trials to redeem themselves after misusing the Extra classes, and when combined with the mediocre reception of the first chapter alongside being introduced before what appeared to be the final battle, many have decried it as {{filler}} and began worrying about the state of the quality of the writing for Ordeal Call.
to:
* Upon release of the first chapter of Ordeal Call, many players were critical about the story being underwhelming compared to previous chapters and felt like the quality is more akin to an average event story rather than a main story chapter. The thing is, the same could be said for FGO's first intermission arc, Epic of Remnant, since they also had a story of similar quality of Ordeal Call. Unlike Ordeal Call, however, it was written as if it was a PostScriptSeason, and it did have a legitimate hook to fall upon- namely, the whereabouts of the Demon God Pillars after Beast I's fall, so it was excused for those reasons, and the well-received ''VideoGame/FateExtra CCC'' crossover chapter was only a cherry on the top. Ordeal Call, on the other hand, had to follow with a less plausible and [[AssPull completely out of nowhere]] plot point in which Chaldea is forced to undertake the trials to redeem themselves after misusing the Extra classes, and when combined with the mediocre reception of the first chapter alongside being introduced before what appeared to be the final battle, many have decried it as {{filler}} and began worrying about the state of the quality of the writing for Ordeal Call.Call.
* The negative reception to Paper Moon also unveiled another flaw apparent since the game's release: the gameplay quality. Numerous issues to it exist- such as the numerous {{Scrappy Mechanic}}s, older Servants not receiving animation updates or even Rank Up quests when they really need it, etc. However, at the very least, the [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame story was at least agreed to be of good quality post-Camelot]], so that was agreed to be an issue, that, while ignored, is understandable. Paper Moon being decried as filler to the point where it easily ranks as one of the worst chapters since Agartha became the straw that broke the camel's back and caused complaints about the gameplay to rise up.
* The negative reception to Paper Moon also unveiled another flaw apparent since the game's release: the gameplay quality. Numerous issues to it exist- such as the numerous {{Scrappy Mechanic}}s, older Servants not receiving animation updates or even Rank Up quests when they really need it, etc. However, at the very least, the [[EnjoyTheStorySkipTheGame story was at least agreed to be of good quality post-Camelot]], so that was agreed to be an issue, that, while ignored, is understandable. Paper Moon being decried as filler to the point where it easily ranks as one of the worst chapters since Agartha became the straw that broke the camel's back and caused complaints about the gameplay to rise up.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
** To add salt to the wound, another group of servants are becoming known to be overtuned; the Anniversary servants (those released upon the FGO Anniversary Celebration event). Remember when Delight Works promised that Merlin would be the most powerful servant ever? Lasengle apparently decided that this vow did not apply to them. The release of Altria Caster blew the former premiere Arts support, Tamamo, out of the water. Her Noble Phantasm, that features a "super-invincibility" that could not be pierced, an attack buff and debuff cleanse for the entire party, can equal the entire skill line up of any other servant. Altria Caster's skills are also spectacular, with a powerful Arts buff, attack buff and NP gain... all packaged with a 50% NP battery. Also, remember Merlin? "The most powerful servant that would ever be created"? He was completely obsoleted by the next Anniversary servant, Koyanskaya of Darkness who finally enabled Buster teams to NP loop.
to:
** To add salt to the wound, another group of servants are becoming known to be overtuned; the Anniversary servants (those released upon the FGO Anniversary Celebration event). Remember when Delight Works promised that Merlin would be the most powerful servant ever? Lasengle apparently decided that this vow did not apply to them. The release of Altria Caster blew the former premiere Arts support, Tamamo, out of the water. Her Noble Phantasm, that features a "super-invincibility" that could not be pierced, an attack buff and debuff cleanse for the entire party, can equal the entire skill line up of any other servant. Altria Caster's skills are also spectacular, with a powerful Arts buff, attack buff and NP gain... all packaged with a 50% NP battery. Also, remember Merlin? "The most powerful servant that would ever be created"? He was completely obsoleted by the next Anniversary servant, Koyanskaya of Darkness Light who finally enabled Buster teams to NP loop.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
The ''Franchise/FateSeries'' in general and ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' in particular have been around for a very long time, and while fans have picked up on lots of things to complain about, many of these issues have their genesis from the very beginning of both the game and the franchise.
----
----
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 9 (click to see context) from:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in all these prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays Tamamo's [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
to:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed.revealed, with the end result being ultimately satisfying solutions to their mysteries. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in all these prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays Tamamo's [[spoiler: Tamamo]]'s [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing to do with each other. It doesn't help that the ''actual'' answer is often seen as, charitably, a bit of a letdown and less interesting than exploring the full ramifications of the fake-out would've been. (''Un''charitably, it's been seen as incredibly stupid and an unsatisfying, undermining all the character's previous motivations, and made even worse by being attached to a major character who's gotten tons of screentime across the main story for years, so that even politely ignoring it is impossible.) The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
Caster is her last name
Changed line(s) 1 (click to see context) from:
* An issue that came to a head in ''Grand Order'' was the preponderance of [[OverusedCopycatCharacter Saberfaces]], the very first of which dates back to the original ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'' game, in the form of Altria's corruption-polluted form, [[RedAndBlackAndEvilAllOver Saber Alter]], whose contrasting personality to her original self made a huge impression. ''Literature/FateZero'' had Gilles de Rais mistake Altria for Jeanne d'Arc, making her ''technically'' the first IdenticalStranger "Saberface," but Jeanne's legend is tied up with King Arthur's,[[note]]The sword she unearthed in one part of her legend might've once belonged to Arthur[[/note]] and Gilles was quite mad, with the two otherwise being very different in design and characterization, so the connection wasn't overpowering. Mordred from ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' was a ''literal'' clone of her "father," but the story worked there by [[ClonesArePeopleToo tying it into her issues with her own identity, gender, and family]]. Even Nero, the "Red Saber" from ''EXTRA'', despite otherwise being by far the most gratuitous example in the franchise (being neither a joke nor a WhatIf incarnation of an existing character), had the meta-reason of her personality being meant to contrast the original, being far more [[AwesomeEgo prideful]], [[LargeHam loud]] and [[CrazyIsCool wild]] than Saber ever was. Okita from ''KOHA-ACE'' was intended to parody the already out-of-hand Saberface phenomenon. ''Grand Order'''s overuse of AlternateSelf versions of popular characters, on the other hand, quickly got completely out of control in the first years of the game's lifespan, featuring not only the original Altria, Altria Alter, Jeanne, Mordred, and Nero, a new Jeanne Alter, Altria Lily (representing a young and innocent version of Altria), Altria Lancer and Lancer Alter (WhatIf incarnations of Altria who took up the lance Rhongomyniad instead of Excalibur and as a result [[HotterAndSexier grew up to have more sex appeal]]), Mysterious Heroine X (a meta-joke character who claims to come from a BadFuture overrun with Saberfaces who represents Altria [[BetterThanABareBulb wanting to kill off her clones and reclaim her position as the franchise's poster-girl]]), [[IndecisiveParody Alter and grown up versions]] of ''her'', seasonal and swimsuit versions of many of the above, and Jeanne Alter Santa Lily, a {{composite|Character}} of many of the trends with Saberfaces whose own profile [[BetterThanABareBulb complains about how out-of-hand the cloning has gotten]]. Things ''have'' died down considerably in later years, but even the India Lostbelt featured Lakshmibai, the "Jeanne d'Arc of India," as an IdenticalStranger for Jeanne, a later anniversary released a Caster Altria that has younger ''and'' adult selves as part of her ascension, and the sixth Lostbelt includes Morgan Le Fey who is Altria's actual biological sister (and looks the part as well).
to:
* An issue that came to a head in ''Grand Order'' was the preponderance of [[OverusedCopycatCharacter Saberfaces]], the very first of which dates back to the original ''VisualNovel/FateStayNight'' game, in the form of Altria's corruption-polluted form, [[RedAndBlackAndEvilAllOver Saber Alter]], whose contrasting personality to her original self made a huge impression. ''Literature/FateZero'' had Gilles de Rais mistake Altria for Jeanne d'Arc, making her ''technically'' the first IdenticalStranger "Saberface," but Jeanne's legend is tied up with King Arthur's,[[note]]The sword she unearthed in one part of her legend might've once belonged to Arthur[[/note]] and Gilles was quite mad, with the two otherwise being very different in design and characterization, so the connection wasn't overpowering. Mordred from ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' was a ''literal'' clone of her "father," but the story worked there by [[ClonesArePeopleToo tying it into her issues with her own identity, gender, and family]]. Even Nero, the "Red Saber" from ''EXTRA'', despite otherwise being by far the most gratuitous example in the franchise (being neither a joke nor a WhatIf incarnation of an existing character), had the meta-reason of her personality being meant to contrast the original, being far more [[AwesomeEgo prideful]], [[LargeHam loud]] and [[CrazyIsCool wild]] than Saber ever was. Okita from ''KOHA-ACE'' was intended to parody the already out-of-hand Saberface phenomenon. ''Grand Order'''s overuse of AlternateSelf versions of popular characters, on the other hand, quickly got completely out of control in the first years of the game's lifespan, featuring not only the original Altria, Altria Alter, Jeanne, Mordred, and Nero, a new Jeanne Alter, Altria Lily (representing a young and innocent version of Altria), Altria Lancer and Lancer Alter (WhatIf incarnations of Altria who took up the lance Rhongomyniad instead of Excalibur and as a result [[HotterAndSexier grew up to have more sex appeal]]), Mysterious Heroine X (a meta-joke character who claims to come from a BadFuture overrun with Saberfaces who represents Altria [[BetterThanABareBulb wanting to kill off her clones and reclaim her position as the franchise's poster-girl]]), [[IndecisiveParody Alter and grown up versions]] of ''her'', seasonal and swimsuit versions of many of the above, and Jeanne Alter Santa Lily, a {{composite|Character}} of many of the trends with Saberfaces whose own profile [[BetterThanABareBulb complains about how out-of-hand the cloning has gotten]]. Things ''have'' died down considerably in later years, but even the India Lostbelt featured Lakshmibai, the "Jeanne d'Arc of India," as an IdenticalStranger for Jeanne, a later anniversary released a Altria Caster Altria that has younger ''and'' adult selves an alternate self as part of her ascension, and the sixth Lostbelt includes Morgan Le Fey who is Altria's actual biological sister (and looks the part as well).
Changed line(s) 6 (click to see context) from:
** To add salt to the wound, another group of servants are becoming known to be overtuned; the Anniversary servants (those released upon the FGO Anniversary Celebration event). Remember when Delight Works promised that Merlin would be the most powerful servant ever? Lasengle apparently decided that this vow did not apply to them. The release of Caster Altria blew the former premiere Arts support, Tamamo, out of the water. Her Noble Phantasm, that features a "super-invincibility" that could not be pierced, an attack buff and debuff cleanse for the entire party, can equal the entire skill line up of any other servant. Caster Altria's skills are also spectacular, with a powerful Arts buff, attack buff and NP gain... all packaged with a 50% NP battery. Also, remember Merlin? "The most powerful servant that would ever be created"? He was completely obsoleted by the next Anniversary servant, Koyanskaya of Darkness who finally enabled Buster teams to NP loop.
to:
** To add salt to the wound, another group of servants are becoming known to be overtuned; the Anniversary servants (those released upon the FGO Anniversary Celebration event). Remember when Delight Works promised that Merlin would be the most powerful servant ever? Lasengle apparently decided that this vow did not apply to them. The release of Altria Caster Altria blew the former premiere Arts support, Tamamo, out of the water. Her Noble Phantasm, that features a "super-invincibility" that could not be pierced, an attack buff and debuff cleanse for the entire party, can equal the entire skill line up of any other servant. Caster Altria's Altria Caster's skills are also spectacular, with a powerful Arts buff, attack buff and NP gain... all packaged with a 50% NP battery. Also, remember Merlin? "The most powerful servant that would ever be created"? He was completely obsoleted by the next Anniversary servant, Koyanskaya of Darkness who finally enabled Buster teams to NP loop.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Added DiffLines:
** To add salt to the wound, another group of servants are becoming known to be overtuned; the Anniversary servants (those released upon the FGO Anniversary Celebration event). Remember when Delight Works promised that Merlin would be the most powerful servant ever? Lasengle apparently decided that this vow did not apply to them. The release of Caster Altria blew the former premiere Arts support, Tamamo, out of the water. Her Noble Phantasm, that features a "super-invincibility" that could not be pierced, an attack buff and debuff cleanse for the entire party, can equal the entire skill line up of any other servant. Caster Altria's skills are also spectacular, with a powerful Arts buff, attack buff and NP gain... all packaged with a 50% NP battery. Also, remember Merlin? "The most powerful servant that would ever be created"? He was completely obsoleted by the next Anniversary servant, Koyanskaya of Darkness who finally enabled Buster teams to NP loop.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in all these prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing do do with each other. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
to:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in all these prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where her Noble Phantasm plays Tamamo's [=NP=] music and one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing do to do with each other. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 13 (click to see context) from:
* Upon release of the first chapter of Ordeal Call, many players were critical about the story being underwhelming compared to previous chapters and felt like the quality is more akin to an average event story rather than a main story chapter. The thing is, the same could be said for FGO's first intermission arc, Epic of Remnant, since they also had a story of similar quality of Ordeal Call. Unlike Ordeal Call, however, it was written as if it was a PostScriptSeason, and it did have a legitimate hook to fall upon- namely, the whereabouts of the Demon God Pillars after Beast I's fall, so it was excused for those reasons, and the well-received ''VideoGame/FateExtra CCC'' crossover chapter was only a cherry on the top. Ordeal Call, on the other hand, had to follow with a less plausible and [[AssPull completely out of nowhere]] plot point in which Chaldea is forced to undertake the trials to redeem themselves after misusing the Extra classes, and when combined with the mediocre reception of the first chapter, many have decried it as {{filler}} and began worrying about the state of the quality of the writing for Ordeal Call.
to:
* Upon release of the first chapter of Ordeal Call, many players were critical about the story being underwhelming compared to previous chapters and felt like the quality is more akin to an average event story rather than a main story chapter. The thing is, the same could be said for FGO's first intermission arc, Epic of Remnant, since they also had a story of similar quality of Ordeal Call. Unlike Ordeal Call, however, it was written as if it was a PostScriptSeason, and it did have a legitimate hook to fall upon- namely, the whereabouts of the Demon God Pillars after Beast I's fall, so it was excused for those reasons, and the well-received ''VideoGame/FateExtra CCC'' crossover chapter was only a cherry on the top. Ordeal Call, on the other hand, had to follow with a less plausible and [[AssPull completely out of nowhere]] plot point in which Chaldea is forced to undertake the trials to redeem themselves after misusing the Extra classes, and when combined with the mediocre reception of the first chapter, chapter alongside being introduced before what appeared to be the final battle, many have decried it as {{filler}} and began worrying about the state of the quality of the writing for Ordeal Call.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 12 (click to see context) from:
* Starting around the Lostbelt arc, many people believe that the story overall ends up having some ArcFatigue issues as while it took two years to complete the first arc, it took about five years for Chaldea to take down the 7th Lostbelt. However, a lot of people didn't take a huge issue with it at first due to [[QualityOverQuantity the excellent quality of the writing of the Lostbelt chapters]], and the chapters that got released in 2020 can receive a pass due to the UsefulNotes/COVID19Pandemic. However, it became especially problematic with Avalon le Fae with the entire story arc was split into three parts and each was released like previous full chapters had been. With the dearth of events that took place in-between in those three parts, and the fact that players couldn't farm to get the new materials for the new servants until after the Lostbelt was completed, many people end up being frustrated with how long it took for the entire chapter to get fully released. The Memorial Chapter Prologue made things even worse as Chaldea pretty much got hit with a problem that many feel could have easily not been in the story with the implications being that the Ordeal Call arc was done to fix that problem. Even worse was the way it came was like inventing a problem for Chaldea to solve completely [[AssPull out of nowhere]], since it had the audacity to list using ''Rulers'' as part of the problem. After that, many people were quick to believe that this was a blatant attempt at prolonging the story just to make sure ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' doesn't end soon, and wonder how long it would take to undo the bleaching of the Earth.
to:
* Starting around the Lostbelt arc, many people believe that the story overall ends up having some ArcFatigue issues as while it took two years to complete the first arc, it took about five years for Chaldea to take down the 7th Lostbelt. However, a lot of people didn't take a huge issue with it at first due to [[QualityOverQuantity the excellent quality of the writing of the Lostbelt chapters]], and the chapters that got released in 2020 can receive a pass due to the UsefulNotes/COVID19Pandemic. However, it became especially problematic with Avalon le Fae with the entire story arc was split into three parts and each was released like previous full chapters had been. With the dearth of events that took place in-between in those three parts, and the fact that players couldn't farm to get the new materials for the new servants until after the Lostbelt was completed, many people end up being frustrated with how long it took for the entire chapter to get fully released. The Memorial Chapter Prologue made things even worse as Chaldea pretty much got hit with a problem that many feel could have easily not been in the story with the implications being that the Ordeal Call arc was done to fix that problem. Even worse was the way it came was like inventing a problem for Chaldea to solve completely [[AssPull out of nowhere]], since it had the audacity to list using ''Rulers'' as part of the problem. After that, many people were quick to believe that this was a blatant attempt at prolonging the story just to make sure ''VideoGame/FateGrandOrder'' doesn't end soon, and wonder how long it would take to undo the bleaching of the Earth.Earth.
* Upon release of the first chapter of Ordeal Call, many players were critical about the story being underwhelming compared to previous chapters and felt like the quality is more akin to an average event story rather than a main story chapter. The thing is, the same could be said for FGO's first intermission arc, Epic of Remnant, since they also had a story of similar quality of Ordeal Call. Unlike Ordeal Call, however, it was written as if it was a PostScriptSeason, and it did have a legitimate hook to fall upon- namely, the whereabouts of the Demon God Pillars after Beast I's fall, so it was excused for those reasons, and the well-received ''VideoGame/FateExtra CCC'' crossover chapter was only a cherry on the top. Ordeal Call, on the other hand, had to follow with a less plausible and [[AssPull completely out of nowhere]] plot point in which Chaldea is forced to undertake the trials to redeem themselves after misusing the Extra classes, and when combined with the mediocre reception of the first chapter, many have decried it as {{filler}} and began worrying about the state of the quality of the writing for Ordeal Call.
* Upon release of the first chapter of Ordeal Call, many players were critical about the story being underwhelming compared to previous chapters and felt like the quality is more akin to an average event story rather than a main story chapter. The thing is, the same could be said for FGO's first intermission arc, Epic of Remnant, since they also had a story of similar quality of Ordeal Call. Unlike Ordeal Call, however, it was written as if it was a PostScriptSeason, and it did have a legitimate hook to fall upon- namely, the whereabouts of the Demon God Pillars after Beast I's fall, so it was excused for those reasons, and the well-received ''VideoGame/FateExtra CCC'' crossover chapter was only a cherry on the top. Ordeal Call, on the other hand, had to follow with a less plausible and [[AssPull completely out of nowhere]] plot point in which Chaldea is forced to undertake the trials to redeem themselves after misusing the Extra classes, and when combined with the mediocre reception of the first chapter, many have decried it as {{filler}} and began worrying about the state of the quality of the writing for Ordeal Call.
Is there an issue? Send a MessageReason:
None
Changed line(s) 8 (click to see context) from:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''LightNovel/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in all these prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing do do with each other. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
to:
* After the revelation that [[spoiler:Koyanskaya]] was not [[spoiler:a member of the Tamamo Nine]] but an OriginalGeneration IdenticalStranger, [[spoiler:a goddess born from the mass deaths of animals caused by TheTunguskaEvent]] with the only connections between her and her lookalike being [[spoiler:the implication that Amaterasu blessed Koyanskaya's birth]], fans have criticized the revelation for being an [[AssPull unsatsifying twist-for-twist's sake]] that just uses a popular established character's appearance as a crutch to a new figure's popularity. But such IdenticalStranger twists are hardly uncommon in the franchise. ''VideoGame/FateExtra'' debuted Nero as a doppelganger for Altria and featured alternative versions of many previous series characters. Amakusa being introduced as "Shirou Kotomine" in ''LightNovel/FateApocrypha'' ''Literature/FateApocrypha'' before the surprising revelation of his true identity is still held up as one of the great meta-twists in the franchise, prior to becoming a common LateArrivalSpoiler, since in hindsight all the mystery surrounding his alleged connection to the original Archer still fits as {{Foreshadowing}} and clues towards his true identity and fans had only their own FanMyopia to blame for not catching it. Both of these twists happened in the context of smaller, self-contained stories that didn't overstay their welcome, and, more to the point, ''did'' have solvable solutions at the end of their mysteries that the sharp-witted could've figured out, just like Masters in the franchise are supposed to try to do when faced with a mysterious Heroic Spirit whose identity is not yet revealed. Comparatively, [[spoiler:Koyanskaya's]] identity was hidden for about four years and over 10 in-game stories and events, with any foreshadowing that [[spoiler:she was speaking as an original being rather than as a member of the Tamamo Nine desperately trying to separate herself from the original]] buried under deliberate misdirection intended to convince the audience of exactly that. And while in all these prior cases the identical strangers ''are'' completely different people, with the new character having little to do with their doppelganger after appearing, [[spoiler:Koyanskya]] still takes a lot of cues from [[spoiler:Tamamo]] to the point where one of her profiles simultaneously compares the two ''and'' attempts to assert that they have nothing do do with each other. The end result was that fans ended up frustrated that this multi-year buildup around the character's identity all amounted to a CluelessMystery with a weak and unsatisfying conclusion.
