Almost all of those are incredibly vague. Not saying yes or no, but if it's just based on those, you'd need something much more concrete.
Found a Youtube Channel with political stances you want to share? Hop on over to this page and add them.
Look. Monsund. This is getting out of hand. These tropes were added over a year ago. People just started expanding them, and you removed them. Multiple tropers agreed and added more to it, while you unilaterally remove them. Claiming they're based on mongolians, when that patently is no longer true (Did mongolians wear black and red? Did mongolians believe they were the master race? Did mongolians build and search for wunderweapons? Did Mongolians hide in a bunker in their capital? Did mongolians unite the whole world against them? Did mongolians capture a part of their population for "Sabotaging" earlier war efforts? Did mongolians go to war over the results of the last war and their economic condition? Do the horde use horseback archers? Do the horde revolve around mobility? Did the horde begin waging war to unify their varied factions?) There's so many parallels to nazi germany, and all but a scant few to mongolia have been phased out as a result of the evolution of the horde.
The original warcraft's horde was possibly based on mongol hordes, but the modern one is not, and Garrosh's is most definitely not.
Edited by DarthWalrus Hide / Show Replies
Them being old doesn't mean they're right.
I'll need to see this Multiple tropers agreed. And Multiple Tropers as well as Metzen Himself agreed that Garithos was Evil, while Kael'thas was sympathetic, yet you changed it anyhow.
By your own Logic, Garithos and his followers are A Nazi by Any Other Name.
Wear Black and Red, check!
Upset by Economic conditions by the last war, yeah pretty much they were upset about losing Lordaeron to the scourge.
Used and searched for forbidden weapons, just like everyone in Warcraft, they did so check.
Captured the Blood Elves, and tried to execute the whole race under the excuse they were sabotaging their War Efforts check.
Believe themselves to be the masterRAce, and plan to exterminate the non-humans once Lordaeron is reclaimed, yeah Garithos made it clear he desired that.
So why does the Horde fit, but Garithos doesn't in your logic, I ask you?
Orcs have always worn Black and Red, thats orcs wear in most fiction. Master Race is its own trope, that appleis, but the rest does not.
Civil Warcraft has always been a deal in this franchise, thats why its called that.
Actually they still are, they still wear Mongol/Viking inspired armor, have the whole Conquer the world with our old fashioned army, absorbing factions and a wide variety of races into the Horde. Heck, it was even Garrosh himself who recruited the Taunka.
Edited by Monsund
Okay so I looked at the edit historya fter seeing an edit war reported (again) in Ask The Tropers. History said "see discussion". The Discussion is two posts that are in disagreement. I'm reasonably sure that's not grounds to restore disputed examples.
That said, I will acknowledge that Garrosh's Horde does match at least part of the definitions given in the trope page itself.
I think this part from the page is also important.
"For empire builders who consider themselves inherently superior to all other races/nations but don't necessarily partake of other Nazi ideology or imagery, see Master Race."
Garrosh's feelings towards orcs was also extremely inconsistent like his character in general.
True and, as you said already, there isn't really any Nazi imagery to go with it, so Master Race probably is closer.
Some of Garrosh's feeligns towards orcs were Character Development. Regardless by the end he was full on orc supremacist.
That, and Garrosh also doesn't say anything about pure orcs or anything like that. He still pretty much has the whole Barbarian Horde leader trying to conquer the World by force.
His history is also entirely different from Hitler, for one Garrosh was the relative of a both famous and infamous war hero, and grew up in a Orphanage.
And what's your response to the word Downfall being used, their focus on Wunderweapons, and nearly everything else.
Also, please, don't try that half-baked "Logic" with me, Garithos, by definition, was not a Nazi, he did not have the over-reaching conquering ambition, nor the economic reality (Your absurd defintion aside), as they did not have a economy, they were survivors trying to reclaim their homeland, they also did not search for wunderweapons, no matter what you said, as there was no reference to that in any shape or form, unlike the entirety of 5.1 revolving around Garrosh trying to aquire a wunderweapon, as well as theramore's mana bomb, and the sha, all of which fall under various typical wunderweapons. (Otherwordly aid, Technological Superweapon, and Ancient Artifact).
I give reasons, you give insults.
If you can explain away the level of wunderweapons, downfall, the KK Guard, the D-day like "Landing" scene in the trailer, the oppression of the non-orcs due to the non-existant failings in the last war, and there's plenty of younger orcs who act like Black Shirts, Garrosh merely untied and directed them.
Garrosh and the True Horde are, without a doubt, based off of Nazis. Don't be pig-headed about this.
Also, given that the pre-edit war status of the tropes is "There" and not "Removed" I don't see how removing it is fair, putting it back in the pre-edit war state would mean keeping the tropes, removing it is putting it in the post-edit war state.
I'm wondering if it might be a good idea to ask in the forums or Ask The Tropers how blatantly the Nazi analogy needs to be to quality as A Nazi by Any Other Name vs Master Race.
Edited by sgamer82
Garithos quotes proclaim his desire to exterminate all non humans. Metzen himself said at Blizzcon the guy was bad, and drove Kael'thas to villainy. The Desire to claim Lordaeron for "himself" and exterminate the Blood Elves wholesale is what I'd call overarching Ambition. He even strongly implies to Kael'thas thats he's been waiting a long time for an excuse to kill off the Prince's race wholesale.
Garithos's followers also performed cruel and unusual experiments on non humans in the Dungeons Of Dalaran to turn tthem into Wunder Weapons, where he also gathered the Blood Elves to exterminate them wholesale.
Ancient Relics really do work in the Warcraft series, thats why all factions interested in Warfare want them for their own.
The oppression of Non-Orcs consisted of sending overseers to their territory, not quite the same. It wasn't involving the last War, which was the Third War, but the current war.
As mentioned, Garrosh's life is extremely different from Hitler, despite what the edit claims.
I fail to see see so. Once again, if they fit, then Garithos should as well given his loud desire to set up his allies to be relocated for genocide.
Edited by Monsund
Went ahead and added a forum topic ot "Trope Talk" here:
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/posts.php?discussion=14349571680A27160000
In light of the above discussion I have a proposition. Would it be appropriate to consider Garrosh similar to Hitler? If my idea is deemed acceptable, I would use one of the following tropes: Captain Ersatz, Does This Remind You of Anything? or What Do You Mean, It's Not Political?. Some of the reasons are as follows:
At a minor level, both have a penchant for red and black symbols and flags as well as the imagery of distinctive facial hair (though Garrosh's appearance of stubble is a tattoo, not hair). Due to the questionable and controversial nature of my idea, I am running it past other tropers, so everyone, what say you?
Edited by HartiganBook Hide / Show Replies