Discussion Characters / OnePieceAnimalKingdomPirates

Late reply, but Animal Kingdom Pirates is the official translation, both in the manga and the anime. If I recall correctly, this website's rules regarding foreign media are to use the most recent official English translation available.

I recommend taking that to "Character Page Cleanup".

That cleanup seems more for fixing badly constructed pages (such as pages filled with ZCE tropes, misused tropes/spoilers, wrong trope ordering) than it is for merging two pages together into one. I don't see much of a need to bring this up there, this is more to cut down on pages and maximize byte efficiency than anything.

I'll elaborate and say that Animal Kingdom Pirates is at 141k and Lead Performers is at around 93k, so merging both together would give a byte size of around 234k, and the max page size before things get too long is around 300k.

To be fair, we did have a discussion about the matter on the forums.

I haven't seen the specific images, but isn't that what we do with all the character pages already?

Think so.

If there is official artwork from the cartoon, yeah

I don't think it's considered an example.

That would work.

I’m looking forward to it.

Before changing the pronouns, better ask on Ask The Tropers or a specific thread because some Vivre Cards have been contradicted by the manga, so it's not a 100% reliable source

Edit: I've asked on Ask The tropers, go and check if you want to give your opinion on the matter

Oops, I've already seen Awareness Bringer's reply and jumped the gun a bit, my mistake. I'll refrain from further edits for the time being, but I'll also discuss the Vivre Cards here.

As far as I'm aware of, they are a completely reliable source, which confirms what the manga has said, expanded on other things and clarified others. They may have minor mistakes regarding characters' heights and other minor details, but they don't have any major discrepancies (none I'm aware of, at least).

I'll also post this on Ask the Tropers as well, and will not continue editing until an agreement is reached.

Ok, I'm the one who made the change, so there's definitely the need of a third voice, but I don't think it's Even Evil Has Standard because the trope is to highlight how bad something is when even a bad guy is revolted, and Sanji's comments are clearly presented as good (or neutral at the very worst); your interpretation seems to assume that Black Maria, as an evil woman with a warped idea of love, doesn't understand Sanji's declaration of "loving all women", which is why I moved it into Evil Cannot Comprehend Good

I was just looking for a balance which I think Deliberate Values Dissonance answers. Besides, whatever Black Maria’s faults, she can be sympathetic to certain people, like that time with Momonsuke, so she’s probably not pure evil like Doflamingo, and while Sanji is a good guy, he can be a bit too flirtatious.

But Deliberate Values Dissonance is when a setting has politically uncorrect morals because it's set in a different time period/place in which those morals are fine; also, Black Maria showed sympathy toward a beaten Momonosuke, but that's her only reedemable scene (and in fact it's pointed out as Pet the Dog), even Doflamingo, whom you define "pure evil" cares for his Donquixote Family

Again, it's because you somehow interpret Sanji's declaration of "loving all women" as a bad thing, while the story doesn't. And the idea of how Black Maria sees them as "being unfaithful" is either Evil Cannot Comprehend Good for reasons already explained, or I don't see any other trope

P.s. until a third party doesn't intervene I doubt we would come out of this, an other idea is going to Ask The Tropers or Is This An Example

More like a half-good/half-bad thing. This is Sanji we’re talking about after all.

I know, this is why I don't see how it can be half or a quarter bad

A Chivarous Pervert is still a Pervert.

Yeah, but his "love all women" is an All-Loving Hero kind of situation, so it's not a bad thing; again, it seems there's zero reasons this declaration can be called "unfaithful" outside of Black Maria's twisted mentality

Which is where Deliberate Values Dissonance should fit in, I believe.

If you visit the Deliberate Values Dissonance page, you'll realize it's a completely different thing (which said in my first post)

The situation I just described is an example of Evil Cannot Comprehend Good, and that's the end for me, we're going in circle repeating the same things

How about a victim of Sanji’s Master of the Mixed Message, then? Although, I guess I can sort of see your point, even though I think she’s not one of One Piece’s Complete Monsters like Doflamingo (who tried to kill his own “surrogate family” alongside Dressrosa) and Caesar (I don’t need to explain).

Never mind. I was just saying.

No problem, I don't consider Black Maria a complete monster either, but she's not even affably evil

Again, Evil Cannot Comprehend Good seems the exact trope for this situation; master of mixed message is a romance trope, but Black Maria isn't showing genuine love either while Sanji is just being chivalrous as usual

Go with male pronouns to hide the reveal as much as possible.

Errr... Anything in Yamato's folder is spoilered out, since otherwise most entries would be fully white. Plus, the image has Yamato without the mask, there wouldn't much to hide ...

Oh right, in that case, I suggest leaving it as is and wait for further info.

Responding now since more time has passed, and our private discussion in case anyone checks this. I believe we should leave Yamato's pronouns as male because that is how Yamato is originally introduced and because it is safer for everyone if we err on the side of trans-affirming than trans erasing. This should also apply to linking tropes that are specifically for female identified characters.

There isn't any trans-erasure because Yamato's only stated reason for addressing herself as a male was because she wants to cosplay Oden, not because she always felt like a man. Speaking of which, you edited that information out, including the crucial reason for Yamato's ambiguity and any argument against her alleged transgender status. I'm going to be brutally honest, the only one "erasing" anything is you.

Ok, people, let's calm down and discuss before sparking an edit war. Now, as said before, I'm ambivalent to the pronouns use, either he or she is fine, since there are arguments for both since Yamato's identity as a man is strictly related to emulating Oden, but at the same time everyone, Luffy included, refer to Yamato as a "he".

We just need to decide which pronoun to use, in case there isn't an agreement, I'll write a post on Ask the Tropers and, in case the edit war still continue, I'll have to ask for locking the page (which would suck)

The recent official translation of chapter 989 still refers to Yamato as male. Considering that this page uses Animal Kingdom Pirates instead of the widespread Beast Pirates, is there really a debate?