Discussion Characters / HololiveJapan

Afaik, A-chan originated from Sora Ch., so it does make sense for her to be in Sora's subpage. However, A-chan is kinda a special case in that she's now a hololive staff member, and I get the impression that she has been appearing more in other hololivers collabs than in Sora's channel? So I'm not really sure what to do with A-chan. What do you guys think?

Unlike Kurogami, A-chan appears often in Holografiti and not always with Sora. So there's nothing wrong with the current page.

However, since I don't want to come back here and cur everything in half, keep in mind that plot trope and narrative trope do not belong to characters sheet (https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/query.php?parent_id=53933&type=att). So something like Early-Installment Weirdness should be moved to the work page.

> If she is allowed, then in theory any family or friend who cameos in any way like Mamatsuri would get a page.

And of course, Yagoo.

i put that folder there so i guess i'll justify my bit

i feel like she's showed up enough that she's tropable now, at any rate, i certainly came up with more than three tropes for her, which seems to be the minimum for anything on this site.

meanwhile matsuri's mom was kind of more of a one-off thing and i feel like if we had a YAGOO folder it'd be nothing but memes rather than about the man himself

in hindsight it'd probably make more sense to move anemachi out of this page, like on some other character pages i've seen where "miscellaneous characters" just show up on the index page itself

edit: while i'm on this train of thought i guess Friend A would be a misc. character too, considering she's a staff member and not one of the idols

YAGOO is an overhead for them, he doesn't really need an entry since he isn't involved the same way Friend A is.

Anemachi though isn't a member, staff, etc. She's someones sister who has appeared a few times. She really shouldn't be on here. The page is for Hololive talents.

feel free to delete it wholesale then, i'm too stupid to figure out how to roll that up into Suisei's tropes without making it sound too off-topic (other than the ones that were already there before i made the anemachi folder)

edit: did it myself

Apologies if I came across as rude, I just don't think we should be adding people who aren't actually Hololive members.

Sorry, but I disagree. Just because they aren't a member of hololive doesn't mean they don't deserved to be documented. Fundamentally they are still characters featured in the 'narrative' of hololive so they have every right to be on the Characters page. Enforcing restrictions such as "hololive members only" hinders the freedom of writing and in my opinion goes against what TV Tropes stands for.

However, I do agree that Anemachi shouldn't be placed in the hololive Japan page in its current form; she is listed in the same level as other talents which is syntactically incorrect in this hierarchy system we have (i.e. page, subpage, folder). There is a way to solve this problem though... If we introduce a new hierarchical sub-level under a "talent", then we would be able to add these non-talents characters there since they would be scoped within a Channel (Talent), instead of being with the other Channels, avoiding the issue.

How might we do that, you might ask? We create a separate Characters page for each talent WITH any noticeable characters worth adding. e.g. Anemachi would be a character entry under a page named " Characters/HololiveSuiseiChannel ", along with the channel owner, Suisei herself, of course.

Not only will this solve our debate above, but it will also address the "This page is getting really long, we should divide it up" concern that was rise before. IMHO this is the best situation to ensure everyone can write all about the characters they love while simultaneously stopping the hololive Japan page from getting too big (from a readability perspective, it will happen soon especially if we just allow any non-talent characters into the page as it is right now).

All in all, this is just us splitting up the Characters page into more manageable chunks. For the more popular works, it's not unusual to see a single character getting their own Characters page, so giving an individual channel its own page should be perfectly reasonable too.

I don't think that fixes the issue though. If you suddenly start making pages for each and every member of Hololive, you go from trying to clear-up one page, to making a bunch of extra pages for one person.

The best solution would be to divide Hololive up by generation so they all have room to be edited and kept neatly together. If you did something like a page just for Suisei, you would need to do the same for other members with several entries.

Plus this is about the Hololive staff and idols. I just don't think its important or needed to include family members or friends when they are only related to hololive by one person. The entries should be about Hololive and the content creators, or we start having random people being made into character pages that don't belong on it. For example, if we allow someones sister, then we open the floodgates to people just putting up random people. For example, by the logic of Anemachi, we would need Shigure Ui because she's on some of Subuaru's streams.

Its just not something the pages need, these should be the idols and maybe important hololive staff, not anyone remotely related to hololive by connections to someone.

- "If you did something like a page just for Suisei, you would need to do the same for other members with several entries."

And how is that a problem? As I said before, many TV Tropes Characters page on other works break down the characters as such: "Work they appear in -> a Group of characters -> an individual character", where an individual character (provided they are important or complex enough) gets their own page. It's not a strange thing to do, it's pretty normal. In other words it's something that we should be aiming for ultimately anyway. And even if nobody else is willing to do it, I'm happy to.

- "The entries should be about Hololive and the content creators, or we start having random people being made into character pages that don't belong on it."

I think you misunderstood me on that one. We will NOT be having "random people being made into character pages that don't belong on it.". Any additions will be written into the Channel page they are associated with, meaning the total number of Characters page will NEVER be greater than the number of talents at max (it will actually be less than that since some channels don't feature any other noteworthy characters other than the streamer themselves, so they won't be needing their own Characters page).

- "For example, if we allow someones sister, then we open the floodgates to people just putting up random people. For example, by the logic of Anemachi, we would need Shigure Ui because she's on some of Subuaru's streams.

Its just not something the pages need, these should be the idols and maybe important hololive staff, not anyone remotely related to hololive by connections to someone."

Em, no? Adding Shigure Ui here is illogical because she is her own Vtuber thus she deserve her own Characters page elsewhere (i.e. not under the hololive namespace). We are only talking about characters who exclusively appear on hololive channels.

Also I should point out that it's not just about random irl people. A number of hololive members also have other recurring (frictional) characters on their own channel (if you watch their livestreams on a regular basis you would know this), where will they go? Are you saying we shouldn't bother documenting them too just because they are not a "talent"? It's a terrible waste of writing opportunities if you ask me.

i think one of you guys should take this to Ask the Tropers for a second opinion

on the one hand, keyblade is right and Anemachi is kind of "too minor" of a character to warrant an entire folder, seeing as she only shows up on stream like once every few months, if even that.

on the other hand, How To Write A Character Page doesn't seem to care for that (or at least doesn't mention who should be "worthy" of a character page), and i've anecdotally seen a few pages over the years that have characters more inconsequential to their I Ps than Anemachi is (read: gacha games), so yeah...

(came from ATT) Yeah, a Mauve Shirt or Recurring Extra can have character entries on any work page if they meet the requisite trope minimum. There's no reason why that shouldn't apply here, barring hierarchical concerns as mentioned.

well, now that that's been actually answered...

i happened to archive the Anemachi folder on my sandbox page (click my name, then click Sandbox link on the top left) if we needed to reuse it, feel free to copy and paste it. not gonna add it back in exactly where it used to be, due to the aforementioned hierarchical concerns.

No idea, I think you might have better luck asking in Trope Finder (see the sidebar).

sounds like Corrupt Corporate Executive

Corrupt Corporate Executive is good but I was wondering if there was one that covered hidden dark tendencies.

I believe we should write our own descriptions (as plain text), since as you might have guess, their official description is pretty lackluster and can even be WRONG at times (such as Watame's herbivore comment; that has been completely retconned as Watame herself did & mentioned eating meat multiple times before). I actually plan on removing the quote from the official website for all of the talents eventually, but I just didn't get around to doing it yet. Plus, it's the norm for TV Tropes to write their own descriptions, yeah?

As for the quote IN their description, I'm thinking we could use quotes from one of their respective songs/OP/ED, if appropriate. I feel that this is a good way to represent them (especially if the quote is relatively deep/meaningful) and they are technically idols after all, so it fits IMO. For example, Kanata would have a quote from her famous Soran Bushi remix that was once her OP, and Watame would have a quote from her Ai-Mai Chocolate Original Song.

And yeah, if we go for Our Own Description route, we would be able to write all about their backstory, streaming style, usual collab partners/groups etc. So that's also a win in my book.

asked about this in Ask the Tropers, they said the page looks fine as it is. apparently the only hard limit to page length is if it exceeds 500,000 bytes in file size, and last time i checked it was 144.9 kB (not even remotely close).

just in case you missed it, a "catastrophic hard drive failure" happened and it affected the whole website

hit up Trope Finder in the sidebar, maybe someone might know there

Smarter Than You Look? That's the closest thing I see after skimming over the Brain Chain and Intelligence Tropes indexes.