Ask The Tropers

When you create a page, you should have some content for it, otherwise it's just a stub.

You can always use the Sandbox namespace when working on new pages, you can't however expect other tropers to do the work for you. As it stands, the page is likely to be cut for being a stub.

Adding it to Pages Needing Wiki Magic can help bring other editors in for extra help.

I added some entries, so it's no longer a stub, right?

^What magic would Character Pages fit into?

It's not a stub, but I advice you to be more careful about spelling and tense. I fixed it for now, but just be careful in the future, 'kay?

Cool

Wait, will i get suspended if it happens again?

Probably not once more, but people that persistently make stubs for other people to repair do get banned.

Is the current article a stub?

Maybe not in technical terms, but it's very stubby and I question why its even being made. Character pages should be reserved for when the main work page has enough character tropes to justify a split. If there's not enough character tropes to do that, you don't need to make a new page.

^Just because you believe in something doesn't mean it should happen

Exactly. A work shouldn't have a characters page just because you think it should have one. That's Fan Myopia.

^^ It's not just "what I believe". It's the rule regarding subpages. They don't exist just for the sake of existing.

^^ Alright, I'm going to say this in a very calm manner as to not get banned...

I believe that if a work has enough notable characters, it should get a page. Is that really too much to ask?

^Not at all, but only as long as the work is put in for the character page, including either pulling from content already on the main page or creating the content directly.

^Ok

it's not about notability, it's purely about how long the page is. If it only has a few tropes and very short entries, it's a stub.

Let me put it this way. A character page is usually made because there are so darn many character tropes that they take up too much space on the regular work page. Most character pages have at least ten tropes for every main character, but this page doesn't even have six tropes for every single character combined. It very very much gives the impression of being an unnecessary page created just because somebody was dead set on having a character page.

Heck, apart from Boxman, you've only got one trope for each character. How can they be major characters if—with that one exception—there are no tropes at all that apply to them?

Whoops, ninja'd by my self

^Because I was recounting tropes from the top of my head. And those aren't all of the characters.

The point the other tropers are trying to make is that there doesn't seem to be enough material to justify a separate characters page. Separate sub-pages are created only when the main page reaches a certain size, and when that happens the character tropes are moved from the main to a sub-page.

Instead of adding character tropes to the main page and splitting off when the page grew too large, you skipped ahead to creating a subpage and then struggled to even fill that page out.

^Like I said, I haven't seen the Animations in a while, and there are probably more tropes in the series than what are listed.

Actually, I have an idea, why don't we merge all Gooseworx pages? Alone, they're all stubs.

They're not all stubs. Elaine the Bounty Hunter isn't a stub. Neither is Little Runmo. It'd be good if you'd name which ones are stubs.

And saying that there are probably more tropes is not enough. That doesn't solve the stub problem.

^^ I have to wonder why you didn't rewatch the animations while making the page to renew your knowlege

^Mostly because I didn't want to see Elain suffer again.

^^Okay, "stubs" was a strong word, but they're still pretty damn small. Merging them would make them bigger and make navigation (not sure if I used that word correctly) easier.

Elain the Bounty Hunter has 41 tropes, and Little Runmo has 45 tropes. That's plenty.

Actually, it just now struck me that you're contradicting yourself. You insist that a character page with just five tropes is big enough to be its own page, but you also insist that work pages with over forty tropes per work are just too small to be their own pages.

I don't get how five tropes is plenty big, but forty tropes is too small.

You seem pretty angry with this

Also, I never said that a character page with 5 tropes was big enough. That's why I made this ATT thread in the first place.

If I come off as angry then I apologize for my behavior, but it'd be good if you'd address my point. I don't get how five is plenty of tropes but forty is too small.

I never said that a character page with 5 tropes was big enough. That's why I made this ATT thread in the first place. But unfortunately, it degraded into... this

Look, here's what I'll do. I'll wait a week or so, and if nobody adds a large enough number of tropes to that character page then I'll just move the tropes there onto the main page and cutlist the character page.

^ sounds like a good solution to me, ( if you wanted consensus or something)

Spidey, if you're sensing frustration here, it's because several people have tried to tell you that character pages are only created when the main page is too large, and also tried to tell you that if you can't list enough tropes for characters, then you shouldn't create the page.

Instead you've given no indication that you understand that, instead saying that this work should get a page (because reasons?) and that there are probably enough tropes for all the notable characters. This equivocation gives the impression that you won't make an effort to understand the rules, and instead will argue your point regardless.

To be clear, if there's enough material for this page, fine. Great. But since you kept asking us if the page is a stub and if it had enough material, it forced me to ask what your motivation was and whether or not such a split was even necessary. People making characters pages when there's not enough tropes for such a page is super common, and it only ever leaves behind stubby pages with no real purpose behind them. So it is pretty important to at least collect enough tropes first, even if you have to do it on a sandbox or something instead of the main work page.

^^Look, I didn't know that

^Should I create a sandbox?

You can create a sandbox if you want to, sure, but the point Warjay's making is that it's good to create a sandbox first, to make the page perfect before you officially post it. Creating one now, when the actual page is there, is like making a blueprint for a house after you already built the house.

I see

Just to be clear about things—do you currently plan to add more tropes to the character page? Like, within the week?

Yes, with some help from the Gooseworx Subreddit, if that's fine.

That sounds like a good idea.

^Wait, I realized something. You said "I'll cutlist the main page if you don't add enough tropes".

Excuse me if I come off as rude, but who ever said that you get to call the shots?

Anyone can place a page on the cutlist, it's the mods that actually approve or decline the cut. And one of the most common reasons to place a page on the cutlist is a lack of proper tropes.

Yes, you are coming across as rude and rather combative throughout this thread.

Pages get put on the Cut List all of the time. It's an action that's not exclusive to certain people; anyone can do it. And pages that are stubs (as your character page currently is) get put on it regularly.

Now, if you're putting tropes up, that's fine. But as has been mentioned earlier in the thread, pages are suppose to meet all of the requirements of a healthy page before they get made, not after.

EDIT: And by the way, this is what Michael said:

Look, here's what I'll do. I'll wait a week or so, and if nobody adds a large enough number of tropes to that character page then I'll just move the tropes there onto the main page and cutlist the character page.

And that was on the 8th, so we still have five days to get the page to where it needs to be before they might do anything.

And if the page gets cut for lack of tropes thats not a permanent inditement- you can remake it once youve gathered enough tropes, even if you dont have enough time this week

Next time, please look up how the cutlist actually works, instead of jumping to conclusions. To be blunt, the entire reason we've got problems with this character page to begin with is that you didn't look up how things are done.

^I recognize that.

Sorry that I didn't check the rules, I didn't know that they were this extensive.

Also, I do know how the Cutlist works. I meant something else when I said "calling the shots"

^ at any rate, Michael Katsur (and presumably the rest of this thread) have promised not to cutlist anything for a week so you have plenty of time to look up more tropes (try the Characterization Tropes index!) (And they won't delete the tropes you already have anyway, just move them)

Here, from the character images i see

Noodle People- Darly

Black Bead Eyes- Milkpooch

In the Hood and Creepy Crows- Hob

^ If you add those, make sure to add context to the tropes too and not just list them.

^^Thanks, Tremmor

I hate to nag, but could I please get some more time?

I checked the reddit page you talked about, and you say you've got one day left, but it's actually three days. I said I'd wait a week, right? So that gives you until Monday.

EDIT: Also, an honest question: What's taking so much time? One hour should be enough time to sit down and add a bunch of tropes. And if the page goes, you can just add it right back later once you've got enough material.

Is there any reason why can't you come up with 7 more sentences despite a week of (unnecessary) delay and the suggestions to use appearance and other tropes for reference? Like I dunno, the PC crashing or going into no network area. As mentioned previously, you can always recreate the page when you're ready any time later. This has been an even bigger Single-Issue Wonk than the trouble with Metroid images.

e: Ninja'd.

also the page in question.

^^Wait, I do?

Well, sure. The 8th, I said I'd wait a week. The 15th, this Monday, it'll have been a week.

EDIT: And to be clear, editing in more tropes should take an hour at the very most. If a week isn't enough time, I highly recommend that you take your time in a sandbox instead. Otherwise, you risk creating stuff that's zero-context, or poorly phrased, or used Word Cruft, or something else.

While you don't have to, I'd be grateful if you'd choose to answer mine and Amonimus's question. Is there any actual reason why you need to wait almost a week just to add some extra tropes?

Ok, to restate my requirement, all I have to do for the page to be spared is to add enough tropes so that at least Darly has 10 tropes, right?

Edit: Ok, I just took a look at the Character Index and there are a lot of Zero Context Examples.

Ummm... If you only have one character with enough tropes, that's still an issue. I don't know if it's technically a stub at that point but a characters/ page with only one fleshed-out folder is still pretty unnecessary.

I believe the general rule is 3+ tropes per folder?

^I see. So all of them - even the main characters - can have only 3 tropes attached to them for the page to be spared?

A minimum of three

Not to be that guy, but this is getting way too long. Spidey, everything that you need to do has been said.

If you don't think you can get it done, copy-paste the text of the page onto a Sandbox and work on it on your own time. That way, you can recreate it at your own leisure. At this rate, the page is going to get cut. That doesn't mean you can't go back and recreate it (providing you follow all of the criteria needed for the page to exist).

Requesting a lock on this query.

^That's what I meant.

Is the answer yes?

You know what, I'll just take it as a yes

I did it :D

Each character has at least 3 tropes, with Darly having 5. That's good, right?

Not bad, but you've got sort of a zero context thing going.

"He wears one that covers his face... assuming he has one." One what?

"It has an uneven version of this trope..." Instead of saying "this trope," it's better to give an actual description.

"He has a one with giant eyes on his staff." Has one what? (Also, this is a bit nitpicky, but "with giant eyes on his staff" could mean that there are giant eyes on the staff.)

EDIT: Also, you keep making typos.

I used "one" to avoid being redundant.

Also, it might just be me, but some of these tropes are pretty self explanatory, so I find it hard to describe them without being redundant.

Yeah, but that way the page soon gets filled with "is one" and "has one" repeated tons of times.

Also, I recommend changing this a bit: "It has an uneven version of this trope, probably to enforce its nature as the Team Pet."

"has an uneven version" is a bit vague, and it doesn't explain how, exactly, it enforces Milkpooch's nature as the Team Pet.

Fixed it

Edit: I don't mean to sound rude, but why do you feel the need to nitpick every edit I'm doing?

Dude, you keep making zero context edits and typos. If you keep making errors, then sure, I'll point them out. For instance, "statment" is wrong.

^What the hell? When I'm editing it, is shows that it's spelled right.

Wait, that's because you fixed it

Note: Administrivia.Examples Are Not Arguable

"Statment" is not spelled right.

^I know that, but when I went back to edit it, it showed that it was spelled "statement"

Look, I think we can finish this discussion. For now, I'd say the page is decent enough, and I don't think anyone else would disagree with me on that point. Just read through entries you write and fix any typos, 'kay?

Requesting a lock.

So, other than/then the typos, is the page good?

Ninja'd

I win! I think.

Do you think you guys could take this to PM or something? This is a verrrrry long query.

v Yeah but I didn’t know if Spidey listened...

^ I requested a lock three posts ago, mate.