Ask The Tropers

I don't think such a policy exists. I know they tried to shift away from superfluous anime jargon a while ago back when that was a problem, but I think these tropes originated in Japan and are sufficiently rooted in that culture that they simple don't have a valid replacement.

Uh... I don't think we do have a policy like that.

We have a policy against Same But More Specific tropes in a Japanese context, but that's it.

Out of curiosity, I have to ask: where did you get the idea that we don't use Japanese words?

The closest I can think of is the site's policy towards using official English names/titles when available. If anything, along that same policy, when they aren't available we're supposed to use the Japanese titles over unofficial translated versions of the title (which can be redirects)

I think this misunderstanding might have something to do with the renaming of Nakama to True Companions. That trope name got translated not just because it was in Japanese, but rather because translating it to English makes it clearer without sacrificing its meaning.

Meanwhile, something like Stock Shōnen Hero is hard to translate. What other name can we have, "Stock Young Boys' Anime and Manga Hero"? Since "Shōnen" is a very commonly-used term when discussing anime and manga, we decided that it's fair to assume that most of our readers know what it means, and that the momentary confusion it could cause to the small handful of people who have never watched an anime series before is a worthwhile tradeoff. For the vast majority of people who have heard of "shonen anime", the term "Stock Shonen Hero" instantly gets the trope's meaning across in a way that no other name could.

So basically, if it's possible to translate a name without sacrificing accuracy, that's usually a good idea, but sometimes, using a certain foreign word might be the best option.

I did think it might be related to the Nakama thing. But Zuxtron, I just need to point out that it was not translated into English, strictly speaking.

"Nakama" doesn't mean "true companions". That's a misconception. So we didn't translate it; we replaced it with what people wrongly thought was the word's meaning.

(According to a manga translator I talked to, "nakama" just means "part of our group". If you want to say somebody's part of your work team, you can say "He's nakama." The connotations of True Companions Who Love Each Other Like Family is a Western misconception.)

This is based on Fighteer's intervention on "Yuusha the Hero" (now renamed to "Stock Japanese Fantasy Hero"). The exact words were: "We do not want more Japanese trope titles, folks."

This also has precedent from Fast Eddie renaming "Yamato Damashii" to "Japanese Spirit" back in 2013 (even then, people were against the rename since Yamato Damashii is a uniquely-Japanese thing and "Japanese Spirit" can be confused for Youkai or Kami.

Also, Hyakki Yagyo was renamed Night Parade of One Hundred Demons after Fighteer's word was given on it.

WOW! I didnt know that you sure know your stuff Satyress!

This is an English-language wiki, and English is terrible when it comes to language purity. When the foreign word is needed, we use it. If it isn't needed, then why use it?

I think NubianSatyress is likely right. The Nakama to True Companions thing is hardly recent enough to evoke an assumption we don't want Japanese words anywhere for any reason. The impression I'm getting is we don't want to use Japanese for a trope name if there's a suitable English Translation or clearer turn of phrase for it, which would explain Yuusha the Hero or Night Parade of One Hundred Demons. Though I do agree Japanese Spirit might be better as Yamato Damashii or Spirit of Yamato, but that's me.

Regardless, it's less a blanket ban and more probably a case-by-case basis.

^^ I don't agree with this because one of the things discussed in "Yuusha the Hero" is the fact that the Japanese term "Yuusha" does not directly translate into "Hero". It just means "Brave Person". "Hero" is the closest approximation that most official translators go with, but it doesn't carry the same connotations in Japanese that it does in English. Some Yuushas are, in fact, evil (see: Redo Of Healer), some are incompetent (see: The Rising Of The Shield Hero), some are treated like a job or title that anybody with certain criteria get (see: Konosuba or I'm Standing on a Million Lives).

This is a similar reasoning why Maou the Demon King uses the original Japanese word as well — though typically translated as "Demon Lord/King", the "Ma" in Ma-oh can also mean "magical, supernatural, powerful" and a lot of other things (Japanese language is VERY big on double-meanings). Thus, some Maoh aren't even evil or demonic, and, like Yuusha, can just be a title that somebody gets.

However, what these two tropes have in common is that, in Japanese fantasy, the Yuusha and the Maoh are supposed to be the Big Good and Big Bad of their respective sides. (Or, again, in cases where there are more than one person with these titles, it works out like a worldwide scale of Cops and Robbers.)

Guys. Wiki Talk

Satyress Cannot go to the forums...

Don't let me stop you. Not you guys' fault I'm banned. If I have to bow out, then I'll bow out.

Crazy said "When the foreign word is needed" and linked to a trope about a Japanese concept, implying that cases where there's no direct English translation for the concept are okay.

That wouldn't explain Fighteer's instructions regarding Night Parade of One Hundred Demons.

Likewise, even the example provided seems arbitrary; you could easily rename Hitodama Light to "Ghost Lights" or "Japanese Ghost Lights" if you wanted to.

If Fighteer said "we don't want more Japanese trope titles'', that does not, to me, imply that all existing ones should be renamed. Much the same as how No New Stock Phrases did not mean all existing Stock Phrases should be cut.

Right. All current titles before the ruling are under Grandfather Clause and are safe.

A Grandfather Clause implies that there is an actual rule in place.

^ Which there very well may be after this discussion is over.

I agree with Crazysamaritan's opinion; Japanese terms should be used if paraphrases aren't clear and concise (e.g. Gorgeous Gaijin being preferred over its old name Foreign Fanservice) in capturing the trope's essence, but if the paraphrases do work we don't need the gratuitous jargon.

Yeah, like NubianSatyress said, my question was based on the impression I got from Fighteer's "No more Japanese words!" post.

I'm personally in favour of renaming Kitsune to Nine-Tailed Fox, Asian Fox Spirit, or something similar since Japan isn't the only country to have multi-tailed fox-spirits, nor is it the country in which the entity originated. Japan may have been — and still be — the most-prominent source of media featuring fox-spirits, but more and more Chinese and Chinese-themed works featuring them are coming out these days. Furthermore, Japanese folklore treats kitsune as synonymous with huli jing and kumiho — the most prominent example being that the kitsune Tamamo-no-Mae was said to be the same being as the huli jing Daji.

^ Best to start its own Trope Talk thread.