Touhou

I'm voting 1.

Also, I would've agreed that Okuu is the closest thing to a Summer representation...and then I got distracted before I could say.

Four down, six to go. A four way tie, interesting.

>summer character

Most of you have already read the test translation of FS Ch 10 (@Clarste, I guess you can spin the delayed manga translation release into a gorgeous triple-HM-backstory release) and/or its spoilers.

One thing FS has been doing is opening a chapter with a view of Gensokyo's landscape and seasonal characters: Aki sisters in Ch 2, Letty in Ch 4, and Lily White in Ch 6. Ch 10 opened with Ichirin and Unzan looking over Gensokyo in the middle of summer.

Unzan, as you may remember, is heavily based on the fact that a thunderhead is called a "nyuudou cloud" in Japan. Ichirin has the spell card in HM story mode, "Fantasy Taro of Summer". So that's it, the summer character is Ichirin/Unzan. (First credit goes to a Japanese forumer).

edited 30th Sep '13 10:06:54 PM by atrican

Mind = Crushed under the force of a giant thundercloud's fist.

I didn't think that Ichirin and Unzan contained an essence of summer in them. Interesting.

That's cool to know, too bad that the fandom clearly ignored this.

Summer isn't purple, though.

Creepy little fetcher. Come home one night to find Japanese E.T. raiding your fridge...

Nine sounds more inspirational, but six sounds like it could be a Sariel theme, so I'll vote six.

Also, ZUN art. It's not just that they're all female, the simplistic way they're presented defuses the "is she hot?" first reaction to the character. So with the lack of the physical, and the lack of male characters to objectify them through the Male Gaze, all we're left with are the ladies themselves.

edited 30th Sep '13 10:36:43 PM by Tacitus

They clearly ignored it because their already had a very suitable candidate in Yuuka.

The fact that they all looked pre-pubescent with secondary features only showing up after TH 10 may have something to do with it.

edited 30th Sep '13 10:40:03 PM by Recon5

At the halfway point now, so I shall repost the list so it doesn't get lost.

1. Feast Away the Leaves and Snow - 1

2. A Blush Crunched by History

3. Feel the Soul Through Each Beat - 1

4. Flip To the Other Side of the Incident View

5. Phase Through Joyous Pranks - 1

6. What Shall Become of Death? - 2

7. Smile you Stoic Jizo, Smile!

8. Crusin' on Lunar Flames - 1

9. Prove What Strength Lies in the Heart

10. "I hate you for what I cannot have..."

edited 1st Oct '13 12:15:04 AM by TheMageofFire

I was going to add something about how the prepubescent character design would stop anyone from eroticizing them, looked at what I typed, sighed, and deleted it.

Scarlet sisters, Nitori and a plastic bag, A couple more glasses

edited 30th Sep '13 11:33:20 PM by Hylarn

I was in the light? Eaaaagh! *skitters away to comfortable darkness*

As for avatar, [edit]: Hmmm... I dunno. I think it'd weird me out/ confuse me to have another 'me' floating around out there. You want the Sato-Koi one?

Also, Once again Unzan steals away the fame. Ichirin only has a connection to summer through mister thundercloud. Again, the level to which she is a non-entity almost as noticeable as Koishi is interesting to me.

edited 30th Sep '13 11:40:08 PM by Antimatter625

At the same time, both the emphasis dissonance between ZUN and the fanbase as well as the canon insignificance of Ichirin could provide a lot of fanwork material.

Yeah, that guy is fun. I'm pretty sure he was in the Cracked list of craaaazy youkai we all enjoyed quite a while ago. And several people already made the Yukari joke then ^^. It it a good one, though. (My one and only love from that list, however, is still Long-Tongue-Toilet-Licker)

Fascinating!

I don't have the slightest idea what the hell is wrong with my head, but why did I expect the pic to be Nitori choking on said bag!? My still not-quite awake-brain apparently made the connection kappa->water creature->fish; then plastic bag->plastic six-pack-rings; then combined them because I thought of the fish caught in the six-pack-rings from The Simpsons. (???)

@ Ichirin & Unzan in general: See, that's where I have to disagree with the two gentlemen above me.

Ichirin may have started a bit non-entity-ish in UFO, which gave us the quite funny Unzan's Hitbox Meme. But I'd say that the combo of Symposium (her backstory, her drinking on the job) and HM (playable character, dialoge, outgoing, friendly, has her own melee fighting style) cemented her firmly as her own character. (For me, and several others, I would imagine, you can massively add Purplequest to that list)

I mean, sure, she's not a Shakespeare character or Mokou/Kasen yet in terms of depth, complexity, interestingness, whatever. But seriously, in what way is she that much worse than Shou or Nazrin (to just stay in the Temple, many more outside)?

I'd go as far as to say that the dynamic was switched! Unzan is no longer the character with Ichirin as a footnote; I'd say now it's Ichirin with Unzan as her weapon. Which is as it should be.

(Wow, that got long, sorry.)

@ Mage List: I vote for 6!

edited 1st Oct '13 12:15:19 AM by FellDeedsAwake

Eh. What the Old Hell? Send it to me. Meanwhile, I may hafta search for an avatar that's more badass than Mage's.

Nobody can top this avatar!

Except Hylarn's current one, Asterism's, Bocaj's, Antimatter's, Xion's, Fawriel's, Clarste's and Otherarrow's...Hey, where is Otherarrow anyways?

Some of the HM headlines amuse me: Ichirin loses to Reimu during Ichirin's story: "Youkai Priest Drags Myouren Temple Through the Mud." Reimu's reputation really is complete garbage, isn't it?

Ah, perhaps you misunderstand. To me, her lack of presence is a fantastically interesting trait. HM really made me love her as a character, because everyone ignores her and pays attention to Unzan instead. Recall that Byakuren said in SOPM that Koishi's detachment could be a sign of nearing enlightenment?

Unzan and Ichirin are kinda like Satori and Koishi, basically. The latter only 'matters' because of the former. That by no means makes the latter character less interesting to examine.

Her conversation with Koishi in Ichirin's story is really intriguing. Ichirin herself recognizes that Koishi could be in a state selflessness, and Koishi responds by talking to Uznan. Ichirin is perhaps reaching a state wherein even she loses track of who she is... now, who else do we know that's typically in such a state?

Right, but Koishi is deeply disconcerted about returning to that state; when she gets the mask of hope, she clings to it like a lifeline, refusing to relinquish it, even to its owner who needed it a great deal herself. Contrast with Ichirin, who has no such concern about losing herself. Interestingly, While Ichirin misses Koishi's presence, Unzan doesn't. Perhaps because he's attached to a certian someone who has almost no presence of her own...

I believe Ichirin to be approaching the sort of 'empty state' that Koishi embodies, but rather than Koishi, who fell there through Trauma, Ichirin's doing it right. But much like Koishi, As long as there's that one person who acknowledges her, she'll still be. Perhaps one day, there will be only Unzan, as he releases her from the world of suffering by cutting that last chain.

It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside... Interestingly, I get cold chills down my spine when I think of Koishi in a very similar situation. Satori goes out of her way to keep Koishi around, because of the traumatic way she became empty. Perhaps Koishi can never fade without Satori doing the same.

Which now has me thinking... what if that's why the others shun Satori? By tucking her away in a dark corner no one visits, they hoped to forget her, and in doing so, allow Koishi to 'pass on', so to speak. Time for one of my tortured comparions!

Satori's kinda like a distraught family member, Koishi's in a painful state and on life support after a failed suicide, and blinded by her own grief, refuses to allow Koishi to die. In this comparison, then, those responsible for Satori's 'exile' are like other family or friends, who try to take Satori out of the room so the life support can be turned off.

Whereas Ichirin's reached the end of her natural life, and her life partner Unzan is quietly awaiting the day she signs that Do Not Resucitate form, uncertain of just how to feel about it.

There's a message in there somewhere...

Yeah...

Antimatter is obsessed with Unzan. He keeps mentioning him like every five words.

Well, that post was about Unzan and his similarities to Satori, after all (They're both purple/pink themed!). But I guess I was trying to get at the idea that death isn't an inherently bad thing, too. We simple fear it, and/or worry about the permanent disconnect it represents. And/Or the selfless state mentioned was likewise not to be feared. And/or that the two states are comparable.

edited 1st Oct '13 1:44:19 AM by Antimatter625

...While I appreciate analyses, I think Ichirin is overshadowed by Unzan because he's a pink sentient cloud with fists larger than most people rather than anything metaphysical. Not to mention, Ichirin doesn't really act like she approaching enlightenment, and I think Koishi's lack of presence has to do with her specific state, rather than proximity to enlightenment

edited 1st Oct '13 1:44:52 AM by Hylarn

I was actually thinking on Satori's suffering. Sometimes, I dunno whether to feel sorry for her or say she deserved her pain. And Koishi... I dunno.

Koishi is Koishi. I guess it's okay to consider her close to enlightenment, but I've always got the impression that she's in an emotional limbo.

That is, until Kokoro came along...

Likely, yes. In my head, that's why she's been able to 'get so far'; she started out far less attached, because people pay more heed to the huge cloud. And over time, they paid less and less to the girl he always hung out with, seeing her as simply his mouth/hitbox/what-have-you.

And true enough that she doesn't act like she's approaching enlightenment. She's just... pushing that detachment, I guess. There's more to enlightenment than being unnoticed, after all.

Well, without knowing how she acted/reacted to Koishi's eye-gouge, it's hard to judge her. I don't think Satori generally deserves a bad life; she's just doing what every youkai does: their thing. Maybe being a satori was a punishment for a past life and satori were hated. Or perhaps the satori were doing pretty well until someone messed things up on the mountain. What we do know certainly implies she cares for her sister a great deal, but is it out of guilt for being part of the cause, or offering support out of love? Why does she want Koishi back? To not be the only satori, or to have her sister back? We don't know much about Satori's motivations... so making a call on whether she deserves it is awful hard.

She probably deserves where she's at as much as Koishi deserves where she's at. It's just not clear who's better off... though both seem to be happy with their current state. (Though Koishi maybe not so much with a bit of perspective, as we see in HM)

Well, Byakuren's the one who put that in my head. Apparently, the two states aren't terribly far apart. The certainly 'look' similar, and I think that perhaps examining and questioning just what enlightenment is a large part of why Koishi exists. Maybe she's the results of ZUN's 'meditations' on the topic.

edited 1st Oct '13 2:14:53 AM by Antimatter625

I like the analysis. It might not be the most obviously "canon" thing, but it's workable. It makes sense conceptually, for one thing - she became a youkai by becoming attached to a youkai being. Losing your "self" in such an existence seems plausible. Ichirin's behavior doesn't seem terribly enlightened, what with the alcohol and all, but then again, this is Touhou. We all know ZUN is enlightened, and if the way he acts is fair game for a Buddha, Ichirin is fine.

The thing about Ichirin and Unzan is that it seems to me that not only is Unzan the muscles of the outfit, he's also the brains as well. Ichirin strikes me as being just a little bit dim. I think she's the only one in HM who fails to see through Mamizou's disguise.