Shin Megami Tensei Series

Can't Nocturne play out very differently in the last third, depending on when you pick your Reason? Serious question, played the game years ago. I know the shape of events is the same, but the reasons (hue) behind them changes significantly if you're the one doing them. Same for Strange Journey, the last levels are entirely different even if they outline of the plot is the same.

By contrast, Devil Summoner, old Persona and DDS are entirely linear. Modern Persona is a strange mix of kinetic visual novel and old school time management novel, but the gameplay certainly changes depending on how well you manage your time and manipulate your friends.

Like you said, Devil Survivor is the most reactive, oddly enough. Try telling Haru to die, it's really interesting.

i think in nocturne, you can agree to the genocide of the manikins, and join in?

but i dont think you can join in with anyone else's plans until the final dungeon.

then again, im having trouble actually remembering anyones plan, other than that hikawa's opens up the final dungeon and isamu...is isamu.

edited 24th May '15 2:49:24 AM by Tarsen

Human(?) sacrifice for Musubi. Also just agreeing to join Shijima nets you a free Samael.

Currently doing the Protect the Old man Challenge Quest.

Hey everybody! It's Thor!!!

.......And he's going to try and murder me. Oops!

Ah well, I haven't reached any bosses that punish me for reflect spells, so time to fuck somebody up.

Edit: Ok, he was spamming Megidola spell, so for a moment it looked like I was Tempting Fate, but it turns out that's one of his normal spells. Thankfully, I beat him though.

edited 24th May '15 4:08:37 PM by HandsomeRob

Just finished my Law run of SMT 4. Four things:

1. I don't get to overwrite my demons in the compendium before the credits start? Bullshit, the Chaos ending let me do that.
2. Merkabah you asshole. You didn't even ask Flynn if he agreed with you two dying.
3. How come the black hole doesn't destroy Mikado too like in the Nihilism ending?
4. I know a lot of people tend to prefer Chaos but I actually think Law's ending is better in this game.

considering chaos wants to unleash an actual demon apocalypse that includes the genocide of the humans in tokyo, i dont find it hard to believe that the oppressive but at least not genocidal classist assholes are preferable.

based on what know anyway. i havent seen either ending yet.

edited 24th May '15 4:43:41 PM by Tarsen

That's basically it. While neither plan is ideal I think the Law ending will result in far fewer deaths than Chaos.

The population in either country is not very large, especially after removing those they considered unworthy in Mikado.

After all the entire country of Mikado is on Masakado's back. That includes the villages surrounding it.

Also Law didn't really have anyone for me to care about at the end in Mikado besides K, and he's accepted demons destroying Mikado on Chaos since he believed it would always meet its end.

edited 24th May '15 4:59:10 PM by OmegaRadiance

Tokyo probably isn't getting out of the Chaos ending unscathed either. I just think from a Utilitarian point of view Law is better because fewer people will die. The Chaos ending results in a violent power struggle throughout Tokyo and Mikado that will probably continue for years. Law, by contrast, results in everyone in Tokyo dying but after that Mikado is peaceful forever.

At the very least if you do the quests the Fairy Race and the Japanese Gods will be restored, so they'll be able to handle the situation in Tokyo.

Not to mention if you give the demon parts to Mushussu so His Mother Goddess boss can make more humans.

If you include the demons, because not all demons are bad, the casualties are still likely to be way higher.

edited 24th May '15 5:07:17 PM by OmegaRadiance

Immediate casualties in the Law path are higher but I'm thinking long term. The peace in the Law route is implied to last forever. If that's the case significantly fewer people will die in the long term and even if they don't have free will it's clear the society will be a lot more equal than it would have been in the Chaos path.

edited 24th May '15 5:17:11 PM by Kostya

Hahaha, the "Please [female character]" talks are all great. Don't think I did any but Airi and Hinako last time.

EDIT: Damn the retranslation, I'd been looking forward to Airi pitching a fit about Hinako.

I'd assume a Messiah statue would be acceptable. Plus it's not like they'll be around to do anything about it for a thousand years or so.

edited 24th May '15 5:37:03 PM by Watashiwa

Despite the narration at the end, I truly wonder if the peace will last forever. Especially when they do something that is considered chaotic and the whole filth thing is to remove anything that gives rise to it.

Since you haven't done the Neutrla Route I'm talking about the Statue of Flynn at the end. It's pointed out in the Neutral Route by one Samurai NPC that the Archangels condemn statues of anyone that is not the Lord for it is Adultery. That or they were just Hypocrites who were just spiting Aquila by having his statue torn down.

By the way, I was amused that on my most recent Neutral playthrough of IV, there was a piece of NPC dialogue I missed last time about setting up a "demon reservation." This was amusing to me because I had the same idea the first time I played Neutral, but I missed that dialogue, meaning me and the game had the same idea independently! Headcanon: they used Toyosu, which seems pretty uninhabitable otherwise.

The Archangels died when Abbadon was made so I don't think that will be a concern.

So I just thought of something else. If Tokyo is consumed by a black hole does this mean if you go too deep into Naraku you'll encounter a black hole?

x2 Then they wouldn't make a big deal about all statues being Idoltary, because that's what they told him.

Also you guys are forgetting Clap Your Hands If You Believe. Not to mention Heaven exists and is not the Demon World/Expanse.

Peace never lasts forever in the SMT universe, no matter what ending you go for.

You know what would be a hilarious epilogue? SMTIV's Law Ending makes everything seem hunky-dory for the people of Mikado...and then Sanat decides to pay the place a visit. Congratulations, Merkabah and Lawful Flynn! You just committed genocide for nothing!

Is Sanat from some other game I didn't play?

DLC.

He's a demon in outer space who planted the seeds of chaos and came back several million years later to see how were doing.

Dying is what we were doing when he stops by in Infernal Tokyo. Because he was killing everyone.

edited 24th May '15 7:37:47 PM by OmegaRadiance

To add to what OmegaRadiance said, Sanat is one of the three DLC alignment superbosses. Sanat is Chaos, Ancient of Days is Law, and Masakado himself is Neutral.

Funny enough, certain beliefs say that Sanat and the Ancient of Days are one and the same. Kind of puts an interesting spin on the relationship between Law and Chaos.

edited 24th May '15 7:42:38 PM by dragonfire5000

If I recall, didn't the Blasted and Infernal Tokyo segments imply that in time, a Chaotic world will crave the stability of Law, while a Lawful world will crave the freedom of Chaos?

Endless cycle.

Yes.

x2 Technically he's also associated with Lucifer, which is why he has Chaos King as a title.

I thought Lucifer planted the seeds of chaos.

I think that was the joke. Sanat and Ancient of Days were equated with Lucifer and one of the Names of YHVH, respectively...and also equivalents to each other in their respective mythologies.

The implications of this, who knows?

I still think it's kinda nifty Sanat knows two of the Demi-Fiends lategame super attacks.