The Dresden Files

Huh, I wonder if Heaven has a diplomatic department. Michael is shown to have no regard for the Accords if it means it endangers lives, and while Harry is the same, he's more savvy about it. Even though in the supernatural world a lot of political problems go away if you kill the right person, one still has to wonder about Heaven's standing when they have, for all intents and purposes, 3 WMDs walking around who are NOT accords compliant. Sure, even supernaturals know enough that if you're not actually doing something evil the knights will leave you alone, but given the politics we've seen, even with holy coincidence the knights would still cause an incident or two. I wonder if some of the missions Michael and the Knights are sent on, while of course being to protect people, are also restitution by heaven to anyone previously offended?

edited 4th Aug '16 8:29:46 PM by SCMof2814

Possible but given the prevalence of Christianity in the real world, it's more likely Heaven works on a level all its own and the Knights are Accords noncompliant because everyone else had better know to stay out of Heaven's way.

We've never seen a hint that The knights are held to the accords.

They only cover the actions of those that signed them after all.

Reminder that the Knights couldn't do anything to Cassius after he fake-surrendered. This goes back to the Denarians' debut.

Power/responsibility blah blah blah. You can't just expect to throw around a holy sword all willy-nilly.

Also, I think going for a killing blow on someone who's surrendered counts as an act of treachery. Specially if you've said you're not going to hurt them, though I can't remember if Karrin actually ever said anything like that.

edited 4th Aug '16 9:23:15 PM by asterism

I think the point is not that Karrin attacked him at all, it's that she attacked him because she was angry and wanted to hurt him. The Sword was able to read what was in her heart and determined that, in that moment, her motivation was more "personal revenge" than "doing the right thing". This way, the fact that killing Nicodemus there could arguably be the right thing becomes irrelevant.

I think that's what Nicodemus meant when he said Karrin's "damn you" was probably a factor in breaking the Sword.

(I think it's a bit like how Hellfire was fueled by Harry being angry and wanting to murder the monsters to make them pay for the people they hurt, so it worked even though disposing of the monsters was a good thing. If Harry only had in mind "I have to kill the monsters to prevent them from harming other people, even though I would like to find a peaceful solution", Hellfire wouldn't have worked, even though his actions would have been exactly the same)

edited 5th Aug '16 1:02:12 AM by Cozzer

"Star Wars has a lot in common with religious texts."

In that case I eagerly await Maggie having to go into a broom closet to meet Jesus.

Or maybe Harry gets to meet a bunch of elves with incredibly long and boring names and throw a ring into a volcano.

Or maybe team up with a trio of plucky mythological figures, one of whom is the Buddha, in order to defeat Old Scratch.

Just because it references myth doesn't make it any less jarring. All fantasy references mythology, and much of it religion, too.

@Emotional!Karrin: Well, from the 2nd book, it was mentioned that Karrin was takes her duty very seriously and passionately. In some cases, too passionate. On Fool Moon she almost killed Dresden and herself, while most of it because Dresden being cryptic secretive Wiz-ass, some of it because Karrin simply refuse to accept that there's some things Dresden can't just say without serious consequence. Also, during Aftermath, she basically blows a gasket (against some Formors and a jerk or two, but still) and while it's awesome, some implications of it become clear; she, at this point, return Fidellachius to Carpenter's because she instinctively knows that she's not in proper stature to use it.

That's also one of main reasons why some fans (and me) peg her as Summer Knight candidate (and only if) something ugly ever happened to Fix.

@Christianity (and presumably, other Abrahamic religion) position on Accord: I tend to think, except in some cases on local sect/ church, as a whole, Church and other Abrahamic Faithful simply doesn't signing on Accord on principle; "There is no god but The God" and all that. Also, Church and Abrahamic Faithful also have their own Code of Conduct that basically favors (Faithful) Mortals over Others. While on many cases, these can intersects, when Faitful have too choose, they tend to choose their Code of Conduct, Accord be damned to Jahannam for all they care.

I mean, considering the Accords are maintained and backed primarily by Mab's military forces they're under no real obligation to sign because their leadership farts nuclear bombs that would level the entire solar system.

Also, I liked the moment with the Sword breaking as a character moment, but it's another clause on my long list of 'why Heaven doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt it gets from every character.'

edited 5th Aug '16 1:48:44 AM by math792d

Murphy becoming the new Summer Knight would get all of my likes. We can throw Elaine as Summer Lady in the mix, the one we have now seems like a fillerish character.

I get the feeling Murphy will get a job offer courtesy of old One-Eye.

I think the point is not that Karrin attacked him at all, it's that she attacked him because she was angry and wanted to hurt him.

THIS!

Also Yeah, after all the hints about the next book, who isn't expecting Valkyrie Murphy?

I could buy Murphy as the Summer Knight. I couldn't see her taking offers from others unless they have her staying in Chicago. Other than her vacation with Kincaid in Dead Beat, she's always been there for Dresden. As friends. Now it's most likely a relationship. She's going to want to be there for him more than ever now.

Murphy's helped Dresden out more than anybody. She'd know a lot about the situation before becoming Summer Knight, and she'd only learn more during training. She'd be the best person for the job because she knows enough about Dresden that she could probably non-lethally detain him, then use her detective skills to find out why Mab wants a target offed and either make them disappear or neutralize the threat they pose to Mab in the first place.

Also, religion . . . only thing that makes Christianity special is the sheer mass of followers it has and the history behind it. There are people who follow the way of the Jedi as closely as they can without the Force. Will it ever be as big as Christianity is now? Probably not. But it does have the power to drive some people who just really get into the story. Same with all those other stories that were referenced. For me, none of those stories would be a jarring source of inspiration for a Knight of the Sword, though Star Wars is more appropriate than most since it centers on a Holy Order of Warriors to start with.

ETA: I haven't read the hints we've gotten, so all of my ideas are untouched by them.

edited 5th Aug '16 6:04:02 AM by Journeyman

But Star Wars takes inspiration more from Akira Kurosawa than it ever did from Christianity. Sure, it's about a holy order of warrior knights, but do you know how many holy orders of warrior knights exist across world literature?

A lot of them. From historical societies (like the ones that gave us the word 'paladin' or the ever-popular samurai myth that Star Wars is based on) to the exploits of the Fianna in pre-Christian Irish literature to the story of Hrolf Kraki and his twelve huscarls in Norse sagas to the Romance of the Three Kingdoms. There's nothing inherently more 'fitting' about it being Star Wars besides it being an overrated nerd culture touchstone.

There's nothing about Star Wars that makes it any more fitting to the scene. It could have been a goddamn Shardblade and I'd still be calling BS

edited 5th Aug '16 6:12:43 AM by math792d

And that would be your opinion. I was only reacting to the examples you yourself stated. Star Wars is the only one I know for sure has a Warrior Order. Maybe Lot R does, though I've never seen anything that's an outright Order in it.

It's all ultimately opinion, and Butcher is a Star Wars fan. Eventually you're just going to run head first into author bias. Like now.

I'm just waiting for The Elements of Harmony to show up. Harry could do with some Orbital Friendship Cannon support.

It's possible. Maggie likes them.

ETA: That's what I'm saying. Any story will work as long as it encompasses ideals compatible with Christianity.

edited 5th Aug '16 7:07:45 AM by Journeyman

You mean Tactical Befriending Support. After all, it seems Nanoha is almost textbook examples of favored Fidellachius wielder: Tiny, fierce, and has absolute faith in the best of people.

Man, Dresden would kill for Nanoha-style magic. Their main magic system is built around As Lethal as It Needs to Be (a spell can be powerful enough to vaporize buildings, but if the blast hits a person it will only ever knock them out. ^note this ability was deliberately developed after a cataclysmic war in the past, where unrestrained use of magical weaponry destroyed the preeminent civilization of the time... and the planet they lived on.) Also, Nanoha-verse magic is compatible with modern technology (even non-magical technology, which is notably since Nanoha is unabashedly magic-as-science and it's basically a sci-fi show where the technology is powered by Mana), which would certainly make Dresden's life easier.

Plus, Dresden already likes big, high-powered combat magic effects anyway. He'd fit right in.

The White Devil is destructive enough on her own. She doesn't need to 'befriend' Harry!

He's also a former magic criminal who's going to be raising an artificially-created child. He's practically one of them already.

edited 5th Aug '16 10:56:53 PM by rikalous

He didn't build her in his basement from spare parts. She's not any more artificially created than Maggie is, she's just not made the human way.

Basically, she's Reinforce (Zwei) not Fate

To clarify: We don't care if she was born a spirit, from artificial womb, built IN A CAVE! FROM A BOX OF SCRAPS!, built as WMD, or even if she was born as stink. She was born from True Love, she's capable for Love and be Loved back. That's all matters.

Eh, I was responding to the claim she was artificially created. I don't know the work y'all are referencing, so meh.

I will say that finishing the current series (Minus the short stories) left me feeling like I'd said good night to a dear friend before they go away on a long trip. I've switched to an old series that I've read seven or eight times already as a palette cleanser before checking out the Codex Alera.

Lyrical Nanoha is the fandom being referenced. Notable for having (among other things) for having a large percentage of it's cast being born/created in non-standard ways. Three clones (including one Clone Jesus), plus one Opposite-Sex Clone, five fully sapient magical constructs, and a host of cyborgs, some of whom were modified from existing genetic patterns (including the aforementioned Opposite-Sex Clone) and others.... well no body knows save their creator who is genetically modified himself and who's genome may have been engineered from scratch (the details are hazy). And that's not even getting into the A.I.s!