Adventure Time

Finn's dad confirmed for douche.

Someone found this guy attractive. That scares me for some reason.

edited 5th Feb '15 6:24:39 PM by LordVatek

Martin reminds me of the German word Backpfeifengesicht.

It means 'Face that Needs a Fist'

I'd like to remind everyone that this guy is a Galactic criminal. With that almost guaranteed bogus story, I'm even doubting that Martin is even Finn's dad at all.

I know he's probably meant to be a Hate Sink, but I still really like him. He's just so casually happy about being an insensitive douche.

edited 6th Feb '15 3:42:16 AM by Xeroop

I wouldn't think Billy would lie about Martin being Finn's dad. Have to figure dead guys have some special clairvoyance in that regard.

Ditto. Plus it wouldn't make a whole lot of sense from a narrative standpoint.

He's obviously meant to be despicable and he inspires all the profound hatred he should but I think he's a good character in being a slightly more grounded villain. Out-and-out evil soulless monstrosities like the Lich are good too, but I think he captures those people who walk among us, the ones who don't talk at length about how evil they are but will cheerfully do whatever serves their own interests no matter how badly it screws anyone else over because they can't consider anyone else's feelings or wellbeing as important as their own. I think some of the truest advice I ever heard... not really advice, more like wisdom... anyway, it went roughly "When someone does something that really upsets you, chances are they've already justified it to themselves." So it's sort of a waste of time feeling bad about it because they sure as hell aren't. And I think Martin Mertens is a walking example of that. Does that make any sense?

It's a testament to how good the writing on this show is how much I fucking loathed Martin in this episode. Like, I spent the entirety of his screentime actively willing for Finn to just cut loose, abandon the moral high ground and start beating the crap out of him. I knew it wasn't going to happen, but I was still hoping it would. Being fired into space in an uncontrolled, unguided pod with an open cockpit was far too nice a fate for that fat sack of shit.

edited 6th Feb '15 7:15:56 PM by Vox

That's what I was telling people since we first saw him! God, you fans disgust me.

I still stand by Martin not being Finn's Dad making no fucking sense. He's the only other human around, there's a lot of emotional investment in him, and setting him up only to go 'FOOLED YOU!' would be super cheap.

Then why would Billy lie to Finn about it in the first place?

Having Finn's dad turn out to be some great hero who really loved Finn and didn't want to abandon him would be a total copout. As it stands, "it doesn't matter who your parents were, you can be a good person even if they aren't" is a much better message than "only good people have good kids". There are a lot of children with worthless, deadbeat dads in the real world who can relate to Finn's situation, and changing it now would ruin that.

It's just that everything out of Martin's mouth cannot be trusted.

Also, the mere fact that he committed a cosmic crime, something the Lich didn't do until he killed Prismo...what the heck did he do to land up there?

If I had to guess, something more callous than malicious.

Martin is definitely Finn's father. From a storytelling perspective, it's the only thing that makes sense. And within the show, we have Billy's word, the word of Billy's star-ghost (Who should know), and Martin's resemblance to Farmworld Finn's dad. Saying that he can't be Finn's dad because he's a bad person is incredibly stupid, undermines the whole message of this storyline, and indicates a worldview that holds up neither in reality or most good fiction.

It seems like the definition of a cosmic crime is fairly arbitrary anyway, like all the Lich had done doesn't count, but killing Prismo does. Could be the gods of that universe playing self-favorites.

Yeah, I'm not a fan of the idea that Martin isn't Finn's dad. It would be a total cop-out. And anyway, whether we trust Martin to be truthful about it doesn't matter, since he's not the one who informed Finn of it in the first place, he didn't even know or care who Finn was until Jake told him. And still didn't care much afterwards.

edited 7th Feb '15 2:34:02 AM by DrDougsh

Okay, I have two theories here, both with different implications.

1) The Billy in the stars is actual spirit-Billy.

2) Space-Billy is the Lich in disguise.

In the first case, we're pretty sure Billy isn't lying to Finn, Martin is totes Finn's dad.

In the second case, we can be pretty sure the Lich isn't lying to Finn, because throughout the show he never actually lied to Finn, not even in the disguise of Billy. He never revealed his intentions, and he actually did try to put the Lich in that time chamber thing. He didn't deceive Finn by lying, he deceived Finn by omission and only telling a truth, one that technically isn't false. So, that means that Martin really is Finn's dad.

Also, I'm pretty sure PB at least somewhat knew Martin from ye waye backe.

Any chance "Sweet pea" will go back to full Lich soon? Yes, I've seen the Belly dance episode.

NO.

Even if he does, which I don't want to think about, he'd probably turn back to Sweet Pea. We've "destroyed" the Lich enough times.

So your main reason for thinking the Lich won't return is that you would prefer he didn't? I thought part of the point of "Gold Stars" was that he almost certainly will return at some point. Otherwise, they wouldn't have made the episode.

He'll probably return at some point, but it's possible that the end result will be him being permanently exorcised from Sweet Pea. Adventure Time can get cynical at times, but killing off a loveable child character, which bringing the Lich back for good would almost certainly require, seems a bit much.

It would just be super repetitive, how many times do they have to beat this guy? Sweet Pea is just too adorable to kill off, and, well...

Unfortunately, I can't say it won't happen, it just wouldn't be a good move.

ed. , Exorcising the Lich may be a really good option.

edited 7th Feb '15 8:26:57 AM by Ruise

It seems to me you have never played Final Fantasy X.

Or at least don't realize Hijacked by Ganon exists.

Lich is the strongest enemy we know of. Also immortal and undead. The thing that makes him such an imposing villain is that he seems to always come back, no matter what.