Adventure Time

Well, I think all of PB's creations have some degree of sentience (except when they're turned into zombies).

But I still see her reasoning for destroying the robots even if it was way too extreme. It's not something unforgivable, at least.

Yeah, it's not like she did so out of malice; she really believed (and not without reason) that they would be problematic. And given how Lemongrab and Goliad turned out, she very well might have been on to something.

It seems that I see this episode this way because of... political reasons. I will say no more.

But I will say that PB needs to never make any living thing ever again. Ever.

Needs noting that PB did let the one sentient robot live when it was brought to her attention that she missed it. Shoot she even gave its job back to it.

After she tried to kill it.

In her defense, she didn't know it gained sentience and control over its aggressive nature.

...Well what I really like about PB is that she is willing to admit when she's wrong.

Heck, even Rattleballs was about to blind Finn before learning they share the same warrior spirit.

There's a circle-jerk on my dash about how PB is now Awful because of her treatment of the Lemongrabs and I am annoyed. >:[

Grrr so many people are watching the show wrong!

"You felt differently about the subject than I did, so you are wrong! See things the way I see it cause it is objectively right!"

To note, I still don't think PB is as awful as some make her out to be. She's not a saint or free from criticism, but still, not a villain.

Besides, in the case of Lemongrab, I stick to my feelings he was ALWAYS a problem in every single appearance aside from Mystery Dungeon & the whole "mental disability" excuse has never meant anything to me regarding him since it's always seemed to me that he's just a selfish asshole. Hell, I felt it confirmed in All Your Fault when PB outright said that there is nothing wrong with their hearts, they just like being that way. I believed that just killing Lemongrab would have been for the best long before he became the problem he was and I wish he just remained destroyed by Lemonhope.

I don't know about killing him, as he does clearly have some sort of issue beyond his control, but I also believe that after "You Made Me", PB should ousted his yellow lemon ass from his Earldom and put him in a mental hospital rather than enabling to continue his "rule". I can't think of any legitimate reason why he should be allowed to stay in power.

In other news, I finally got up to "Betty" which was awesome, if a bit fast-paced. Probably would've benefited from being a two-parter so they could have slowed down the action a bit. Maybe show Betty adjusting to the weirdness of Ooo rather than suddenly being used to it, despite only being there for a few minutes.

edited 15th Apr '14 6:49:42 AM by JapaneseTeeth

Wait...

Could the second half of the Lemon episodes be about inbreeding? Because most of these lemonfolk the Lemongrabs created look like they suffer from something similar that can be seen in inbreeding.

edited 15th Apr '14 7:19:19 AM by GaryCXJk

Does anyone else hope want to see the Farmworld again? That cliffhanger bugs me. I really want to know if Farmworld Finn defeated the Jake Lich.

"Should the queen of vampires lay down with the woman of sticky gum as with a vampire king, it is an abomination and both of their heads will be decapitated"

Leviticus 2014:4

(just say no to vampiress bubblegum relations!)

I'm not sure that decapitation would really stop either of them. Marceline is basically immortal, and Peebles has exploded.

I just caught up on all the new stuff since the grass blade episode and... I didn't laugh a single time but holy crap, stuff happening all over the place what is even going on here.

... Still feeling kinda bummed out over the Flame Princess episode. I get the idea, but... but they were such a cute couple back theeeeen!

And now I'm gonna look up PB's song at the end of Lemonhope's Story and listen to it again so that it may haunt me forever in my dreams.

edited 15th Apr '14 2:05:47 PM by Fawriel

Finally getting around to watching "Lemonhope". Let's liveblog!

Okay, so he's an angel, apparently. I'm guessing dream.

Yup.

Propaganda video? By Lemongrab what the crap. And Lemongrab 2 is still alive, apparently. And he apparently made a video with the express purpose of showing how terrible the earldom is.

And Lemonhope is not paying attention.

Oh come on, PB? Why can't you save them? Or Finn. That's what he does. And Lemonhope doesn't give a crap. He is a lemon person, after all.

And the Lemon Earldom is even worse now. Okay, seriously what the fuck? Also, Lemonhope is still kind of a jerk. Though I can't really blame him for wanting to stay the hell away from that place. I mean, the guy has never had his own life.

Aaaaaand he's naked. And wiggling his butt at the camera I did not need to see that. Also he can't sing.

And now he's going to be like a pirate or something. Who befriends rats. BONK!

Okay he's in the desert now. Dream sequence! And he's a horse now. King Worm must have something to do with this. Now he made the boat into his house.

Talking to inanimate objects, the first sign of insanity.

Oh, now it rains. Hey, it's totally-not-old-guy-Finn. With a cloud. And Lemonhope is illiterate due to lack of effort.

That is not how you play a flute. Dang, is it a requirement that all Lemons have infinitely annoying voices or something?

And another nightmare. Reprising his song. And oh crap it's morbidly obese Lemongrab and he's naked why.

What does it mean? It means that you're traumatized and got groomed for vengeance rather than getting therapy.

And Lemonhope is now dressed like Elton John. Dang this place is getting even worse. And Lemongrab is worse than ever. Lemonhope has no clue what is going on either.

Aaaand there goes Lemongrab. Hopefully forever.

More dreams. He's an angel again. In an endless void straight out of Catherine. Finn is a far better flautist than Lemonhope and WHY IS SHE REBUILDING LEMONGRAB DID YOU LEARN NOTHING?!

Also, I can't really blame Lemonhope for wanting to get the hell away from the Lemon Earldom. Nothing good has ever happened to him there, after all.

Song time. As if Ooo wasn't post-apocalyptic enough already. Song's nice, though.

Okay, that was an... interesting episode. I think this is one of those weird things where I can tell that a thing was well-done, but I personally didn't care for it a whole lot. The beginning and end bits were good, but the middle bits felt kinda slow. Honestly, I think they could've cut out all the Boxingday stuff and just had him go straight from the boat back to the Lemon Earldom and it wouldn't have lost much. They could've easily condensed it more without losing the substance.

That said, there were some good elements to it. Lemonhope does come across as a legitimately conflicted character; on one side he does have something of a duty to rescue his brethren, but on the other side the guy has never lived his own life and you can't fault him for just wanting to not deal with it. It's an interesting exploration of responsibility vs. personal freedom.

And a final weird thing, not good-or-bad: I thought it was really strange that they portrayed his final return to the Lemon Earldom as Lemonhope finally coming home. It implies that that's his "place" so to speak, when it doesn't make sense. His entire life in castle Lemongrab was basically unmitigated misery and abuse; there's no reason why he'd want to be there or have any fond memories of the place. I can get the idea of "being among the other Lemon People", but on the flipside, as he's the only "normal" one, it makes sense that he wouldn't really feel at home there.

But all that said, I think that this should've been a single-part episode and the 2-parter should've gone to Betty, because her relationship with Simon is a (to me, at least) far more interesting plot thread, and one that's more relevant to the show as a whole.

edited 15th Apr '14 8:27:34 PM by JapaneseTeeth

Lemonhope is something I recognize as good and well worth the time spent watching it, but aside from that scene at the end I found really powerful and the dreams I found very well directed I don't have much personal attachment towards it.

I don't see PB as being unreasonable, it's heavily implied that politics are keeping her from interfering directly hence all the smoke and mirrors. Sending in Finn would probably be a last resort thing, because that's still sending in an agent to well... assassinate or kidnap Lemongrab. And despite everything Lemongrab is still her offspring, and leaving him dead is just the same as killing him herself. PB seems to value stability more than anything else, as shown in Burning Low, her staying the same age for centuries, and her quest for an Eternal Empire. She even puts it above her own happiness.

Also Lemonhope going back after the boat would have seriously undercut his character. He was so devoted to his own freedom he was willing to endure for it. Going back only after that bit of suffering would have made him look like he was just giving up and going with the other option.

edited 15th Apr '14 9:27:51 PM by odafangirl

Ooo is a game with a single Chess Master. What's the fun in that?

That's true, but I still felt like the pacing was a bit slow. The idea of him enduring life on the boat is fine, it's all the Boxingday stuff that felt drawn out. I can kinda see the purpose (giving him a somewhat comfortable existence to make his choice more difficult), but it just didn't feel that interesting.

As for PB, I can see why at this point she's unwilling to step in, but I also think that she could've easily solved the problem back around the time of "You Made Me" by declaring Lemongrab unfit to rule rather than trying to fix the situation by creating a clone. At that point Lemongrab is still clearly her subject, and part of her responsibility to him is to keep him from causing harm to other subjects.

I'm also baffled as to why PB felt the need to rebuild him again despite the fact that he's caused nothing but misery.

edited 16th Apr '14 7:06:20 AM by JapaneseTeeth

Complete list of Peeble's missions accomplished that are not miserable failures:

The Gumball guardians turned out okay, as did the majority of the candy people that she's presumably created. It's mainly when she tries to create a successor for herself that things go horribly wrong. Science the Rat did pretty well, too.

My main question is why she thinks it's worth going to trouble of resurrecting Lemongrab rather than letting the poor guy rest in peace and giving control of the Lemon Earldom to someone who doesn't utterly suck at ruling it. I mean, Lemongrab's entire existence was basically misery, both for him and for anyone around him. There's no real benefit to bringing him back.

edited 16th Apr '14 9:15:29 AM by JapaneseTeeth

I think I've said this before, but leaving Lemongrab dead when PB had the ability to revive him is... icky. I mean he is technically her kid, and it could be taken as a 'Mentally troubled people don't deserve help and/or life'. We need to see where it goes from here, but if I had my say I'd conclude this arc for good in the subplot of a larger episode.

PB needs to hire Science the Rat as her royal adviser.