Rap and Hip-Hop

More Joey. With Steez this time.

Question: what distinguishes good rapping from bad rapping (please provide examples of both)? All I can do is judge on production, which is no way to judge a rapper him/herself.

The only thing I can really identify as bad is the "club rap" made infamous by Will Smith, the Black Eyed Peas, Pitbull, Nicki Minaj, and many others.

In the underground scene, a good benchmark is not just flow, but how much wordplay and imagery you can create with the least words.

This song by Atmosphere does a pretty good job I think.

Not to say production isn't important, Cunning Linguists and Grieves have very polished production values and incorporate classical samples and sung vocals to most of their works.

I think most serious rap fans reject most radio songs, feeling they use overproduction and reject lyrical themes in favor of glam rap and forgetting the urban struggles that are a core part of the trade.

But, it's all an extremely diverse genre, so yeah it's subjective. Same way I couldn't tell you what's "good metal" or "good bluegrass."

edited 2nd Sep '14 1:32:21 PM by darkabomination

*Shrug*. That's subjective. I like a lot of Will Smith's stuff, although he straddles the line of pop music. Nicki Minaj does too. I guess what makes them "bad" is that a lot of their music is focused on pop anthems in sacrifice of lyricism.

It baffles me how someone could hear Kendrick Lamar and not be able to tell the difference between him and someone like Chief Keef. Kendrick has intricate, intelligent, witty, thought-provoking lyrics and a killer flow. Chief Keef yells the same crap over and over again into the mike, with little to no variation in rhyme scheme. And most importantly, he's not saying anything of substance.

So there's a lot of factors that determine what good rap is. I mean, Chief Keef has his own fanbase. I can't point to one factor that definitively makes good rap "good" and bad rap "bad". You just have to develop an ear for it and decide yourself.

edited 2nd Sep '14 1:30:06 PM by ElementX

Will Smith has one thing going for him: he used to be funny.

Nowadays, well... Scientology does that to people... Does he even rap any more?

edited 2nd Sep '14 1:55:25 PM by TheHandle

I think sincerity and delivering a good message is also important. Like Immortal Technique can be pretty hardcore, yet he's just so good at being brutal while having intricate references to mythology, science, and culture between the rants on social inequality that it's just awesome.

Sure everyone and their cat has heard Dance with the Devil, but what about stuff like Rich Man's World?

I would've said this earlier, but I was on my phone minutes before class.

I think good rap is defined by a swift and consistent flow, clever wordplay, complex rhyme schemes, good lyrics (redundant?), energetic delivery, and sometimes, interesting subject matter.

However, I don't think all four of these are required to make a rap song good, but it helps to at least have two. Here's one I'm fond of, due in no small part to the fantastic "World of Cardboard" Speech in the second verse.

Bad rap, the way I see it, features the same clichéd "I'm rich" topic with lazy writing, horrible lyrics, and boring half-asleep sounding delivery. "Send It Up" by Kanye West is by far the worst example of lackluster delivery.

A good beat helps as well. A good beat can compliment the lyrics and make what would've been a good song with another beat even better. Also, if a song has a good beat, but wack lyrics, at least you can listen to the instrumental. Case in point.

You know that's King Louie rapping the first verse on "Send It Up", right?

MF Doom and Earl Sweatshirt also sometimes rap with a lazy-sounding, dry, monotone voice.

YMMV, but that seems to effect Del on Event II. Production and rhymes are solid, but he seems to have lost a lot of the enthusiasm. Granted it's been 13 years, some friends have died, and it's a different world than what it was in the 90s. Still, it's not enough to ruin the album, just something you have to wrap your head around first.

i knew it was someone different, i just wasn't sure of the name

And i dunno about earl, but DOOM imo has the lyrical skill to back it up.

edited 4th Sep '14 9:56:49 AM by PhysicalStamina

That "Send it Up" song got a pretty nice send-up by The Lonely Island.

But, you know, seriously, Kanye West literally comparing himself to the Second Coming... clearly Society Marches On. Remember when John Lennon said The Beatles were 'Bigger Than Jesus'?

By the way, I showed that clip to a girl friend of mine. For those of you who've seen Clone High, think of Cleo. Her reaction was an unironic endorsement of the braggart rappers the LI were impersonating and all of their segment, buying it hook, line and sinker, and condemnation of Bolton's bits. She did not seem to get the joke at all. That was an interesting experience.

edited 4th Sep '14 11:13:28 AM by TheHandle

Color me psyched.

I've been listening to this dude a lot lately.

Since a lot of you are looking for intelligent, thought-provoking lyricists, I think Mick Jenkins would be right up your alley.

Eminem dropped this last month:

The only thing I really don't like about this song is Sia's vocals. They sound so forced and unpleasant.

edited 6th Oct '14 9:59:31 AM by PhysicalStamina

It's a shame, some pretty poignant Em lyrics in there however I can't sit well with the beat overall or indeed, the vocals.

Anyone heard about the upcoming Shady XV project? It sounds like a big project, slated for release in November so I don't know how genuine that release date may be, wouldn't be surprised if it was pushed back. Then again, Eminem released the cover art for it not long ago so hopes are high.

Besides that, looking forward to Big KRIT's Cadillactica album.

Besides the information on Eminem's page, I haven't seen anything, sorry.

I've noticed a weird thing… rap is a rather inhospitable environment for women, considering how they are treated in so many texts or clips; at best they are reduced to singing the chorus. But in France at least, the very few women that I did hear rap… are actually pretty damn good. Hell, my favorite Frenc rapper, Casey, is a gal (although some would object to that…)

But I don't know how it is in the US… I heard a few excerpts of female US rappers here and there, but while the flow was usually good, the lyrics were almost always about sex in some way. And I don't think (or I don't hope…) that's really indicative of the general level.

So to enlarge my lacking rap knowledge, does anyone here have recommendations of female rappers who are good and rap about something other than sex or money? From the US, or even other countries. I've just heard about Nicki Minaj but not really listened to what she does yet…

edited 26th Jan '15 9:49:15 AM by Lyendith

Lauryn Hill, Queen Latifah, Dynasty, MC Lyte. Salt-N-Pepa, and Snow tha Product.

edited 26th Jan '15 1:47:54 PM by PhysicalStamina

Can someone point me to a song where the vocal time is divided equally between a singer and a rapper?

I know that sounds like a bad idea, but I need some inspiration.

edited 29th Jan '15 12:43:10 PM by WaxingName

Nice.

Maybe one or two more and I'll be fully inspired.

[x5]

Noname Gypsy is a new rapper outta Chicago that fits your criteria.

Oh, the last time I heard this kind of music to a rap was on Samurai Champloo. I kinda missed it. What's this style called?

I don't think it has a specific name. It's just Hip-Hop.