Rap and Hip-Hop

As a child Hip Hop made me read books,
And Hip Hop made me wanna be a crook
And Hip Hop gave me the way and something to say
—Atmosphere - "Party For The Fight To Write"

So yeah, I thought we'd need a topic for these genres as well. I would ask for no hatedom posts, but since I, in my owwn words "insistently troll" the metal topic, it'd be a bit hypocritical.

So, who got love? As the cliche these days goes, I like rap, but none of that mainstream bling-bling hennesey-rhymes. See also.

I first got into the music through a Swedish act, Looptroop (they're ok, but I don't really like tham that much anymore. They try too hard). For a long time, however, I didn't really get that deep into the culture, because I only saw the mainstream. That is, until one day I remembered an article I read on the "Party Music" cover controvercy and decided to check it out.

Aside from The Coup, I like Dead Prez, Public Enemy, Paris, Nas, Mos Def, The Roots, Jedi Mind Tricks (though I ignore certain lyrics), CunninLynguists and K-Rino'.

Fuck StuffWhitePeopleLike. Fuck them.

I'll make a list as soon as I sort through my old music collection. Which is going to take a long time.

Also, I listen to a lot of Finnish rap, but it doesn't even deserve be mentioned in the same post as the american ones.

The Finnish Scene has it's own, cool style, that's a combination of conspiracy theories, some heavy metal imagery, cholo fashion, and a certian punk aesthetic.

straight from da Norwegian underground

That's actually pretty cool. Of course, I don't understand a word of Norwegian, and rap is a very lyrics-heavy genre. Still, awesome.

Forgot to mention, with The Roots, that Q-Tip's solo stuff is great, too, but a bit bland. You could play that stuff at a opera half-time and eyelids would remain un-bat.

Haven't heard Q-Tip's solo work. How's it compare to A Tribe Called Quest?

Favourably, I don't like ATCQ that much, it's a bit too slow.

I have found myself liking german rap acts like K.I.Z, Fettes Brot, Deichkind or Fischmob.

"Bling-Bling"- or "gangsta" rap is more non-serious entertainment for me.

What exactly is the difference between rap and hip-hop?

It's a beat thing (from an instrumentalist's point of view). Hip-hop beats have very distinctive slightly swung, slow semiquaver feel that comes from a variety of sources; the least expected of these comes in the form of German electronica maestros Kraftwerk. Really.

Jethro's rap pick of the week, number the first.

Pete Rock & C. L. Smooth - The Reminisce Over You

East Coast classic from 1991, fromt he duo's debut EP All Sold Out. The song is in the memory of the artists deseaced friend, and is easily one of the most influential (if a bit obscure) rap tracks from the early 90's. It also cemented the status of "miss you songs" (which should totally be a trope) in rap music.

For the influence it had, see The Coup - "This One's A Girl", Mos Def - "Roses", Marxman - "Drifting".

This short segment is supposed to be a weekly feature, try to rtemind me if I forget. And everyone else is welcome to post videos as wll.

The Coup - Fat Cats, Bigger Fish

Hailing from the Bay Area (namely, Oakland), The Coup are one of the formost poltical rap groups on the scene, combining funk influence with a hard leftist view.

Fat Cats, Bigger Fish is a narrative song, detailing the day of our protagonist and narrator who hustles himslef some money and food, and eventually (part leading this isn't in the video, only on the album version) goes to a fancy party working as a waiter, and hears a bunch of bigwigs plan a Real Estate Scam, and reflects how small his crimes are in comparison.

edited 11th Oct '09 1:09:38 PM by JethroQWalrustitty

The Beastie Boys still use the word "ill", apparently. How retro.

They were like Boards of Canada, Cypress Hill and [insert abstract rapper here] rolled up in one! So awesome!

This is probably the whitest thread about rap I've ever seen...

Do you have something to say, or are you just going to threadshit?

This is probably the whitest thread about rap I've ever seen...

If this is the "whitest" thread about rap you've ever seen, then you haven't seen many rap threads. Seriously, rap threads basically consist of a bunch of irritating white kids pretending to be "HARKOR GANGSTA!!!1!", typing in caps all the time just like the example I gave.

Or maybe you think this is the whitest thread because of the background colour. In which case, I have to congratulate you for actually noticing something that no other troper (including me) has ever noticed.

Heh, reminds me why I stopped going to one local rap forum. The people there were doing these tough guy acts (though not as over-the-top as I've seen elsewhere; the moderation came from everyone more or less knowinng each other in real life over at least few connections).

I mean yeah, I'm Cracka McWhiteydevil, and I'm not going to pretend anything else.

I just like select hip-hop I've heard (four-five artists, and I'm aware of Saul Williams only thanks to Nine Inch Nails anyway). Mostly I just pay attention to the backdrop and the unique delivery of every rapper, though sometimes the lyrics catch my attention, too. I don't listen to hip-hop to pretend to be badass, and sure as hell don't listen to it to pretend to be black - that's not how it goes in Israel (people do listen to it to seem badass, but pretending to be black... come on, what does that even mean?).

Niko sez "the whole wangster thing is an American phenomenon. Doesn't happen on the other side of the ocean." (Artistic license used while quoting. Also, here "wangster" is unrelated to Wangst.)

edited 15th Oct '09 7:38:15 AM by Litis

Niko sez "the whole wangster thing is an American phenomenon. Doesn't happen on the other side of the ocean."

Unfortunately, Niko was wrong. Over here, the "wangsters" are known as "chavs", and they're really, really fucking stupid people. This is not a class thing; I'm a metalhead, it's my duty to hate chavs. That, and they're extremely nasty people.

"It's a beat thing (from an instrumentalist's point of view). Hip-hop beats have very distinctive slightly swung, slow semiquaver feel that comes from a variety of sources; the least expected of these comes in the form of German electronica maestros Kraftwerk. Really. "

Not exactly. In all of the topics I've seen (as well as interviews with Kool Herc and several other hip-hop artists), they described it this way:

Hip-hop, like Punk, is a subculture that includes several styles of music, dress (or as marketing executives call it: "urban wear"), & visual art. Rap is a genre of hip-hop music that involves an MC rhyming over a beat.

edited 15th Oct '09 8:46:25 AM by Wheezy

Well, yeah, okay, but if you're a drummer, and someone asks you to play a hip-hop beat in a gig, you're not going to be thinking about urban style; you're going to think, uh okay, Dennis Chambers, Aaron Spears (who is technically more gospel than hip-hop, but he has been known to cross genres)...

edited 15th Oct '09 7:14:45 PM by zeroplusalpha

Seeing as this thread hasn't been posted on for ages, I guess I'd better revive it. And what's the best way to do that? By having one of my trademark long-ish posts, this time about rap and hip-hop.

Actually, I'll just call it "rap", because the term "hip-hop" annoys me (because it sounds a bit stupid to me).

My overall opinion? I think rap suffers tremendously from Sturgeon's Law or at least a variation on it. I've listened to a fair bit of it - just to get a real idea of what it's like - and it's a genre that has great potential. (This sounds really elitist, but bear with me). And, regarding the "variation on Sturgeon's Law", I don't think rap is 90% shit. I think it's about 10% shit and 80% OK.

I can list every single rap group/rapper I like (as in properly like, not "they're OK") off the top of my head, and unfortunately, it's under ten artists: Public Enemy, Eminem, Wu Tang Clan, Afrika Bambaataa, Dead Prez, Grandmaster Flash, and Ice T, plus some stuff from Jedi Mind Tricks and Tupac Shakur. (It would be exactly ten artists if Rage Against The Machine counted as a rap group). Even then, there are only one (or two) of them I've actually bought albums of, Public Enemy and (if they count) RATM. That's not to say I find it a bad genre; I just think it gets killed by the culture.

Ah, yes, the culture. Now it's the culture that annoys me. Should I elaborate? Well, partly. First off, the Fan Dumb. Jesus, the Fan Dumb. Second... the Fan Dumb, once again, because that's what ruins the culture. Rap fans are generally fine; if I thought otherwise, I wouldn't be posting in this thread. But the particular type of fan I'm talking about... the ones who idolise the "gangsta" lifestyle (despite the fact that gangsta rap started off as a warning ''against'' that lifestyle), the ones who are intensely homophobic and misogynistic, the ones who are stupid beyond belief... and the ones who listen to commercialised shit like 50 Cent, Soulja Boy and Lil Wayne.

So, now that the rant's over... can anyone suggest some really, really good rap groups/rappers? I mean brilliant ones. I want to see if there are more than 9-10 I really like.

edited 23rd Oct '09 10:08:00 AM by Lordnecronus

I'd reccomend The Coup, Paris (also a Public Enemy affiliate) and Mos Def. I also like Ice-T, I don't know if you like it. Cunnin Lynguist is also pretty good, though I don't really like their early stuff as much, "Dirty Acres" is a masterpiece that puts the earlier albums to shame.

And yeah, it suffers from Sturgeon's Law, especially since it's ostentially pretty easy to make. Write rhymes, synthesize beat, ????, PROFIT.

[ed.] Oh yeah, I was supposed to post a video a week, but go figure, i got bored, no-one replied, and I couldn't relaly pick a good one for the third week.

edited 23rd Oct '09 10:19:22 AM by JethroQWalrustitty

Jethro: Thanks for the recommendations. I'll go check them out, see if I like them. Regarding Ice T or Ice-T, as you typed it: I did mention that he's one of the rappers I enjoy, but even if I've already checked out the recommendation before the recommendation is made, it's a welcome recommendation.

Weird. A paragraph with four uses of the word "recommendation". Can anyone top the redundancy of that?

edited 23rd Oct '09 1:59:49 PM by Lordnecronus