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What is Strength? Who is strong, who is weak?

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G.G. Since: Dec, 1969
#1: Oct 2nd 2010 at 9:09:37 PM

What is true strength? Is more than just physical prowess or mental aptitude? Lets say Bob who is a scientist can create superweapons of mass destruction yet he cannot lift anything heavy, is he strong? Or Alice who is physically imposing yet she is at the whims of someone who is smarter than her, is she weak? What exactly defines 'strength'? Or what is true strength?

edited 2nd Oct '10 9:10:26 PM by G.G.

pvtnum11 OMG NO NOSECONES from Kerbin low orbit Since: Nov, 2009 Relationship Status: We finish each other's sandwiches
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#2: Oct 2nd 2010 at 9:25:10 PM

various form of strength, besides the obvious physical definition.

Mental? Emotional? Spiritual? Moral? All sorts of forms of 'strength'. If you use it in context, it would help.

But as you said: The man who has great mental acuity - mental stregth - might be fairly weak in comparison to say, a weightlifter.

The weightlifter might only be strong in regards to lifting weights, but would have a terrible time doing a marathon run - is the marathon runner 'stronger' than the weightlifter? Different forms of strength - some would call it endurance, or constitution, or something. I suppose you could lump it under strength.

A chunk of metal might be great at resisting tension forces, like a length of cable, but that cable is no good for handling compression - it merely bends and kinks and is useless in that regard. Shear force would wreck another piece of metal which is normally good at compression or tension loads, and vice-versa.

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Starscream from Sydney, Australia Since: Jan, 2001
#3: Oct 2nd 2010 at 10:30:58 PM

For "mental strength", I prefer the term "willpower", people are less confused.

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BillysLeftBoot Leichenfledderer Since: Sep, 2010
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G.G. Since: Dec, 1969
#5: Oct 3rd 2010 at 5:45:05 AM

@pvtnum 11 I was trying to look for examples from what I had looked up but I was mostly talking about all types of strength.

edited 3rd Oct '10 5:45:40 AM by G.G.

RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
krrackknut Not here, look elsewhere from The empty Aether. Since: Jan, 2001
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#7: Oct 4th 2010 at 3:31:24 AM

You read far too much manga.

They are merely descriptive words.

An useless name, a forsaken connection.
librarygnome101 Since: Dec, 1969
#8: Oct 4th 2010 at 2:31:32 PM

Strength is what you make of it. It is only defined by the person using it.

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#9: Oct 4th 2010 at 4:15:38 PM

Strength is the ability to do shit. Now stop reading Shonen and go play.

<(-_-<)(>-_-)> "FUSION HA"
Deboss I see the Awesomeness. from Awesomeville Texas Since: Aug, 2009
I see the Awesomeness.
#10: Oct 4th 2010 at 4:19:31 PM

Strength is the property denoting stress/strain and is most commonly given in the units mega pascals or giga pascals.

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TheyCallMeTomu Since: Jan, 2001 Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
#11: Oct 4th 2010 at 5:04:25 PM

Strength, like most things, is actually quite meaningless without context.

Asking "What is X?" and attempting to find an out-of-context definition is useless. MUDADA!

Roman Love Freak Since: Jan, 2010
#12: Oct 4th 2010 at 6:00:14 PM

WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

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americanbadass Banned from [CENSORED] Since: Mar, 2010
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#13: Oct 4th 2010 at 9:18:52 PM

Strength like every other word is perspective based.

Example: I think of myself as physically weak but to a child I am strong for being able to lift a 40 pound box he cannot even push.

This is strength.

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MadassAlex I am vexed! from the Middle Ages. Since: Jan, 2001
Vree Since: Jan, 2001
#15: Oct 5th 2010 at 9:55:38 AM

True strenght is when you don't have real strenght, but you insist that what you do have is better.

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MadassAlex I am vexed! from the Middle Ages. Since: Jan, 2001
RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#18: Oct 5th 2010 at 12:39:11 PM

If you define strengh as virtue, as the Will To Power, to defeat one's own weaknesses and surpass the ostacles life throws at you in your pursuit of whatever it is you want...

Well, please excuse the Wall of Text, but I would like to quote this lesswrong aricle at you (which in turn quotes Empowered, of all things):

Superhero Bias

8Eliezer_Yudkowsky01 December 2007 03:14AM Followup to: The Halo Effect

Suppose there's a heavily armed sociopath, a kidnapper with hostages, who has just rejected all requests for negotiation and announced his intent to start killing. In real life, the good guys don't usually kick down the door when the bad guy has hostages. But sometimes - very rarely, but sometimes - life imitates Hollywood to the extent of genuine good guys needing to smash through a door.

Imagine, in two widely separated realities, two heroes who charge into the room, first to confront the villain.

In one reality, the hero is strong enough to throw cars, can fire power blasts out of his nostrils, has X-ray hearing, and his skin doesn't just deflect bullets but annihilates them on contact. The villain has ensconced himself in an elementary school and taken over two hundred children hostage; their parents are waiting outside, weeping.

In another reality, the hero is a New York police officer, and the hostages are three prostitutes the villain collected off the street.

Consider this question very carefully: Who is the greater hero? And who is more likely to get their own comic book? The halo effect is that perceptions of all positive traits are correlated. Profiles rated higher on scales of attractiveness, are also rated higher on scales of talent, kindness, honesty, and intelligence.

And so comic-book characters who seem strong and invulnerable, both positive traits, also seem to possess more of the heroic traits of courage and heroism. And yet:

"How tough can it be to act all brave and courageous when you're pretty much invulnerable?" — Empowered, Vol. 1

I can't remember if I read the following point somewhere, or hypothesized it myself: Fame, in particular, seems to combine additively with all other personality characteristics. Consider Gandhi. Was Gandhi the most altruistic person of the 20th century, or just the most famous altruist? Gandhi faced police with riot sticks and soldiers with guns. But Gandhi was a celebrity, and he was protected by his celebrity. What about the others in the march, the people who faced riot sticks and guns even though there wouldn't be international headlines if they were put in the hospital or gunned down?

What did Gandhi think of getting the headlines, the celebrity, the fame, the place in history, becoming the archetype for non-violent resistance, when he took less risk than any of the people marching with him? How did he feel when one of those anonymous heroes came up to him, eyes shining, and told Gandhi how wonderful he was? Did Gandhi ever visualize his world in those terms? I don't know; I'm not Gandhi.

This is not in any sense a criticism of Gandhi. The point of non-violent resistance is not to show off your courage. That can be done much more easily by going over Niagara Falls in a barrel. Gandhi couldn't help being somewhat-but-not-entirely protected by his celebrity. And Gandhi's actions did take courage - not as much courage as marching anonymously, but still a great deal of courage.

The bias I wish to point out is that Gandhi's fame score seems to get perceptually added to his justly accumulated altruism score. When you think about nonviolence, you think of Gandhi - not an anonymous protestor in one of Gandhi's marches who faced down riot clubs and guns, and got beaten, and had to be taken to the hospital, and walked with a limp for the rest of her life, and no one ever remembered her name.

Similarly, which is greater - to risk your life to save two hundred children, or to risk your life to save three adults?

The answer depends on what one means by greater. If you ever have to choose between saving three adults and saving two hundred children, then choose the latter. "Whoever saves a single life, it is as if he had saved the whole world" may be a fine applause light, but it's terrible moral advice if you've got to pick one or the other. So if you mean "greater" in the sense of "Which is more important?" or "Which is the preferred outcome?" or "Which should I choose if I have to do one or the other?" then it is greater to save two hundred than three.

But if you ask about greatness in the sense of revealed virtue, then someone who would risk their life to save only three lives, reveals more courage than someone who would risk their life to save two hundred but not three.

This doesn't mean that you can deliberately choose to risk your life to save three adults, and let the two hundred schoolchildren go hang, because you want to reveal more virtue. Someone who risks their life because they want to be virtuous has revealed far less virtue than someone who risks their life because they want to save others. Someone who chooses to save three lives rather than two hundred lives, because they think it reveals greater virtue, is so selfishly fascinated with their own "greatness" as to have committed the moral equivalent of manslaughter.

It's one of those wu wei scenarios: You cannot reveal virtue by trying to reveal virtue. Given a choice between a safe method to save the world which involves no personal sacrifice or discomfort, and a method that risks your life and requires you to endure great privation, you cannot become a hero by deliberately choosing the second path. There is nothing heroic about wanting to be a hero. It would be a lost purpose.

Truly virtuous people who are genuinely trying to save lives, rather than trying to reveal virtue, will constantly seek to save more lives with less effort, which means that less of their virtue will be revealed. It may be confusing, but it's not contradictory.

But we cannot always choose to be invulnerable to bullets. After we've done our best to reduce risk and increase scope, any remaining heroism is well and truly revealed.

The police officer who puts their life on the line with no superpowers, no X-Ray vision, no super-strength, no ability to fly, and above all no invulnerability to bullets, reveals far greater virtue than Superman - who is only a mere superhero.

Was it too long? I can just put the link if you want. But I thought it was very relevant to the discussion, and many of us don't go through the trouble of opening links...

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Barkey Since: Feb, 2010 Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
#19: Oct 5th 2010 at 1:49:00 PM

^

I agree.

Strength can't be defined by the word alone. You have to consider things like mental strength, or physical strength. Which can mean so many things to so many people.

More than strength, I appreciate bravery and courage. Both of those make someone strong in a way, without requiring mental or physical strength.

SilentReverence adopting kitteh from 3 tiles right 1 tile up Since: Jan, 2010
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#20: Oct 5th 2010 at 7:00:36 PM

"Mental" and "Physical" are just adjectives. We can say "OK, we have mental strength which is a mental X and physical strength which is a physical X". We still leaves out of the discussion what the X is, and I think it is one of those cases where that's actually the point. Strength is that "go-do something", be it via throwing boulders or via talking to the Senate. Just like there is a "know-how something", maybe.

Also... what are we actually trying to define here? Strength, courage, or heroism? I'd surmise that whatever quality or set of qualities or statuses that define one as having (mental|physical|magical|phlebotinumal) strength, they would have to be able to be present in such tasks as going to the supermarket or bying the newspaper every Sunday morning. Otherwise, we would be able to only talk about strength when referring to superheroes, which was sort of the point of the quote above, but we already have "superpower" for that.

Blerg... that was a moutful of nonsense I think... I don't even know why I posted this. Maybe I felt inspired by something.

Oh, yeah... the quote above... grin

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#21: Oct 9th 2010 at 1:33:29 PM

Money is strength. For with money, you can buy whatever other kind of strength needed.

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RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
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#22: Oct 9th 2010 at 1:35:58 PM

Hahaha No. If you don't have the virtues to handle money, you will only be taken advantage of until someone more virtous has it. You can't buy willpower. Only cocaine and a shrink. Both are poor substitutes.

edited 9th Oct '10 1:36:38 PM by RawPower

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
CommandoDude They see me troll'n from Cauhlefohrnia Since: Jun, 2010
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#23: Oct 9th 2010 at 2:55:54 PM

Well uhh, you just tell that to all those company CE Os that have our government on their payroll.

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RawPower Jesus as in Revelations from Barcelona Since: Aug, 2009
Jesus as in Revelations
#24: Oct 9th 2010 at 3:35:08 PM

That may or may not be true, and to what extent it is true is debatable. What is certain is that the mere fact of owning money will not save them from being conned out of it, perhaps by equally rich but fairly more capable people, or perhaps through no fault other than their own.

'''YOU SEE THIS DOG I'M PETTING? THAT WAS COURAGE WOLF.Cute, isn't he?
jaimeastorga2000 Indeed Since: May, 2011
Indeed
#25: Oct 9th 2010 at 10:26:31 PM

Money is strength. For with money, you can buy whatever other kind of strength needed.

Please. If we are going to talk about "the strength from which all other strengths are derived", that's intelligence, not money.

As for the OP, I don't see how such a discussion can be productive. Arguing over what to call "strength" is literally arguing over a definition; whatever you consider "strength" will continue to do the same things regardless of what word you use for it. Quoth the Bard:

What's in a name? that which we call a rose
By any other name would smell as sweet

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