When They Cry - Higurashi and Umineko

So they mistranslated the Epitaph?

Darn it.

well it's not surprising that something got lost in the translation since the epitath uses a lot of poetic lines.

Alright, I have a question that I think should be asked at the end of Higurashi No Naku Koro Ni, and which would have an interesting answer:

And Then What??

It's just been bouncing around my head for the past while, and I'd like to hear what you think the answer is. I have my own answers, and I think I'll say them sometime later.

What? Elaborate please.

Well, okay, cycle broken, happy ending, yadda yadda yadda. What happens to the cast after that? Do they still have a "happy ending"?

And then they lived Happy After Ever. Pretty much everything was adressed in the finale, there is nothing more to be told. The exception is Satoshi, but he will probably get better according to the finale. I suppose we also don't know about who end with Keiichi, but this is not particularly important. Well, you could go for Higurashi Rei, that is a epilogue of sorts (though it is not even the same Rika).

I could also say "and then Umineko happen", although there is no relation except being the same series and maybe the same world (Ange goes to the same school as Shion, but I don't remember other similarities) and sort of sharing a character.

PS: Well, yeah, I suppose. What would make you think they wouldn't? (aside from living in a village that can make people crazy)

PPS: There is a manga collection that is not written by but it is approved by Ryuukishi07 woth stories from different authors. Some adressed this issue, I think. Some are not happy. I remember one that involved Shion killing half of the cast in a atempt to save Satoshi.

edited 7th Dec '10 8:07:13 PM by Heatth

Well, unless the Hinamizawa status quo got 100% altered in the last arc (which I admit to having not seen), there's still, for example, the issue with the Hojo family being shunned. (I know that got thrown out in Minagoroshi-hen, but I'm not sure about the last arc).

I have my own personal fanon, but I'll wait until tomorrow to tell you of it.

That issue was quickly adrassed, at last in he VN. I don't remember well, but while it wasn't so heartwarming as in Minagoroshi-Hen I believe the Demon Grandma decided stop bulling Satoko. Since it wasn't so public as in the previous arc, I suppose the prejudice would stand a bit more, but eventually would fade away since the Sonozaki are not enforcing it anymore.

PS: Wait you haven't seem the last arc? Why that? Since you used "seem' instead 'read' I am assuming you are reffering to the [[Adaptationdecay anime]] right? If so, it is a good thing you haven't seem. Get the game and go play the last arc. Is a quite awesome arc so there is no reason to to.

edited 7th Dec '10 8:06:13 PM by Heatth

Sorry for the double post, but the information is important enough to require a bump.

As I promised, I will post here the new translation of the Epitaph. The Witch-Hunt do not garantee this will be the final version, but it is an improvement.

Behold the sweetfish river running through my beloved hometown.
You who seek the Golden Land, follow its path downstream in search of the key.

As you travel down it, you will see a village.
In that village, look for the shore the two will tell you of.
There sleeps the key to the Golden Land.

The one who obtains the key must then travel to the Golden Land in accordance with these rules.

On the first twilight, offer the six chosen by the key as sacrifices.
On the second twilight, those who remain shall tear apart the two who are close.
On the third twilight, those who remain shall praise my noble name.
On the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill.
On the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill.
On the sixth twilight, gouge the stomach and kill.
On the seventh twilight, gouge the knee and kill.
On the eighth twilight, gouge the leg and kill.
On the ninth twilight, the witch shall revive, and none shall be left alive.
On the tenth twilight, the journey shall end, and you shall reach the capital where the gold dwells.

The witch shall praise the wise and bestow four treasures.

One shall be all the gold from the Golden Land.
One shall be the resurrection of all the dead souls.
One shall be the resurrection of the love that was lost.
One shall be to put the witch to sleep for all time.

Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice.

For records, here the old version. Bold for what was changed:

My beloved hometown, the sweetfish river running through it.
You who seek the Golden Land, follow its path downstream and seek the key.

If you follow the river downstream, you will find a village.
In the village, look for the shore the two will tell you of.
There sleeps the key to the Golden Land.

He who lays hand upon the key shall travel under the rules below.

At the first twilight, you shall lift up as sacrifice the six chosen by the key.
At the second twilight, those who remain shall tear apart the two who are close.
At the third twilight, those who remain shall praise my honorable name on high.
At the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill.
At the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill.
At the sixth twilight, gouge the belly and kill.
At the seventh twilight, gouge the knee and kill.
At the eighth twilight, gouge the leg and kill.
At the ninth twilight, the witch shall be revived, and none shall be left alive.
At the tenth twilight, the journey shall end, and you should reach the village of gold.

The witch shall praise the wise and bestow four treasures.

One shall be, all the gold from the Golden Land.
One shall be, the resurrection of the souls of all the dead.
One shall be, even the resurrection of the lost love.
One shall be, to put the witch to sleep for all time.

Sleep peacefully, my most beloved witch, Beatrice.

This old Epitaph is from my 4.2 patch (hope I hadn't messed up anything).

edited 10th Dec '10 1:35:12 PM by Heatth

Just got to the end of the third episode.

HELLYEAHHHHHHH! That was an amazing ending. My god.... Freakin brilliant.

Edit: TEAAAA PARTYYYYYYYYY WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Oh god, Miyo is awesome.

edited 10th Dec '10 4:07:13 PM by neobowman

Miyo? You mean Lambdadelta? You may call her just 34 if you find her name confusing. =P I don't know if thinking on her as Miyo is a good idea, although it is obviously the intention. But, yeah, she is awesome. I don't remember what she have done on the 3th episode but she becomes even more awesome each new episode.

Good luck with the 4th episode. It may be slow at first (with a whole new character to develop) but I believe it pay off in the end.

Anyway, I thought people would comment more about the new Epitaph. ^^;

Naa, I feel like calling her Miyo.

There's nothing much to comment on the new epitath if you don't know what the changes affect.

Good to see an updated version =D I must say I never attempted to work it out assuming it was too difficult for those without a fluent understanding of Japanese. But I've read a few theories others have come up with so that at least is interesting.

CAERH GUIAERGAEUIGNAERIOAE

OKONOGI?

I literally read that name, had flashes in my head and came here to post. OWFHEIOAWHFIOAWHGEIOARHG HOLY SHIT

Mind Blowing Fact #2.

Battler's possible solution to Eva-Beatrice's final Nanjo killing red. Holy shit, that's brilliant.

edited 14th Dec '10 10:51:35 PM by neobowman

I understand you are on EP 4 now? Or he was mentioned on EP 3 at some point (I heard he had a mention as earlier as EP 1, but I don't remember)? One wonder how he got to climb so far in just a few years (Umineko is 2 or 3 years after Higurashi, I believe). If you are looking for more interesting connections, the school Ange attends is the same as Shion (you know, the one Shion had to flew away, because of how it sucks).

Which was that final theory again? If it was what I am thinking I thought on it right away. In fact, EP 3 is a particularly easy one. I do not believe I am correct, but it was pretty much the only episode I could get an non contraditory 'answer' for the whole Howdunit and Whodunit (the Whydunit is a bit more complex, of course). About that Red Web, this illustrate perfectly what I thought at the time (her explanation latter haven' convinced me either).

Oh, the blog I just linked is pretty good. Just beware spoilers, but there is a waring before every 4koma.

^^ On the subject of the Nanjo killing, am I the only one that noticed that EVA managed to completely trap herself with that one? I mean, "Absolutely no factors other than humans participate in this game board", "No actions caused by Jessica's body had any relation to or influence on the murder of Nanjo. This also applies to Battler and Eva", and "A human, with their feet on the ground, held up a weapon and killed with it!" pretty much guaranteed that the murder couldn't be the result of the anthropomorphic personification of Eva's hatred that EVA was presenting as the "magic" solution, or any other sort of magical, not-quite-human being — making it infinitely more likely and obvious that EVA was just dicking around with wording and the timing of everyone's death to confuse Battler. I'm figuring Battler realized the same thing once the third game was over and the "figure it now or DIE!" pressure was off of him and prepared it as a sort of backup plan if the Kinzo's dead, so there's actually an unaccounted for Person X doing all the murders blue truth got shot down (which it did). Girl should have quit while she was ahead.

edited 15th Dec '10 12:38:57 PM by Sparkysharps

No, you are not. I thought on it right away. And some other did the same, as the link I provided last post shows.

I'm reading Higurashi now, and I just finished Tatarigoroshi-hen.

The ending is pretty horrifying

Just wait. It really hits its stride two arcs from that one.

Meanwhile, at Witch Hunt...

When They Cry 4: Episodes 5-7

Translation: 100%

Editing: 100%

If anyone is interested.

edited 18th Dec '10 1:08:38 PM by Crinias

Just finished the main part of EP 7. The ending is quite disappointing, really. But I've heard the Tea Party is exceptionally big, so I have my hopes up to this one.

Episode 7 was fantastic.

Now, having read this and have I think pretty much solved everything of importance, I'm going to go back and read the question arcs and try and piece together the clues and make my real impression on what "really happened" Plus it'll be fun to see all the foreshadowing I missed.

Just finished the main part of EP 7. The ending is quite disappointing, really.

Eh? I found the ending of the main part fantastic, especially as Golden Nocturne played.

Which end you are talking about? I am speaking of the one before the Tea Party. I find it disappointing. I was expecting something more. The story until that point was good, but it got some Ending Fatigue as the resolution become more and more obvious. The ending just didn't make up for this as it was just a weak resolution. And anti-climax

I got what I wanted, eventually. EP7 is certainly fantastic.

I am not sure everything was really explained, though. Sure, the game clams so, but should we believe? There is a few things that don't fully satisfy me.

First of all, it is never conclusively stated, but I believe there is no doubt about who Lion/Yasu/Clair is right? No mater how I thing, I can't reach an answer other then Shannon and I don't eve think we are supposed to doubt it.

Then lets start with the motive. The old "force Battler remember his sin" fits astonishingly well. Even the absurd method make sense now. It seems a bit extreme, but even that is explained by the 'year sooner or latter' thing. I have no problem with that. My problem is for the accomplices, Genji, Nanjo and Kumasawa. Loyalty would work for Genji and maybe Kumasawa, but not for Nanjo. He is not a servant and he has a family, would he really be willing to commit suicide? The same goes for Kumasawa. However, if they are not accomplices, why haven't they told the others about who was 'Beatrice' when the murders start?

There is also Kanon. It is not so obvious, but I believe he is Shannon as well. But if so, how would they have fooled Krauss family for so long? They clearly do not know, Natsuhi wouldn't support such nonsense, for start, and Jessica acts as they are two people in front of Battler. It is definitively weird, I think.

Then, there is also the obvious: Where was Battler in the 'Truth Scenario'? Vanished without leaving a clue. He likely did not head to the Chapel (else Eva would have met him), so where could he have gone?

Also, I don't think this Episode was enough to show the definite answers for all the Episodes just yet. There is still a few things that don't fall together. For example, Hideyoshi seeing Shannon in EP1. If Shannon was there, how she faked the injuries and how she got out? But if she wasn't, why Hideyoshi lied?. There is also the mess that was EP4. At first I thought it was just what like the 'Truth Scenario', just with a few changes, but there is the merciful dead of Maria and Kyrie emotional call to Battler (and the fact he was not killed), that don't fit her 'new' personality and the 'Beatrice' Battler saw. For now I think this is the most mysterious Episode.

Anyway I will also read all the episodes again, to work out the problems I just stated. If they were meant to be solvable by EP4, hopefully I won't have much problem with so much hints. I would, of course, like the hear someone else reasoning abou that matters.

Oh, and I couldn't bring me to believe in that final Red Truth. It seems to much like a loser flag. Just like the ones in the end of EP4.

PS: How should we handle spoilers here? I am not sure of what I should tag and for how long.

PPS: Just noticed that you, Pata Hikari, are the one that is also reading Higurashi right now. For the way you posted earlier, I assume you haven't seen the anime nor have been spoiled much right? Hope you reach Minagoroshi-hen and Matsuribayashi-hen soon. Some parts of it can have a different meaning if you read Umineko first, I think. It also shows how Bern is a huge troll direct to all Higurashi readers.

edited 20th Dec '10 8:04:47 AM by Heatth

Just a heads-up : I've restarted my liveblog of the Umineko sound novels. For now I'm going to finish up EP 6, but EP 7 should start early next month. (*fingers crossed*)

Huh. I think I just found another shoutout in Umineko:

From The Dog Was the Mastermind:

"The revelation was so out of left field that the phrase "Yasu is the culprit" is something of a minor Japanese meme for this sort of trope."