Team Fortress 2

A lot of the stock weapons are the most viable for that class. You can't really go wrong with the default scattergun or rocket launcher, for example. Sometimes when I'm playing a class I'll go all stock weapons just for the fun of it, usually substituting the Ham Shank for the regular melee weapon, since it functions the same. (And I have a killstreak ham named "Can't Beat the Meat", so why wouldn't I use it?)

Unless you're Pyro. Then you need to get yourself a Degreaser.

Nah, the stock is flexible enough and more useful as a straigh-fighting weapon; using the crutch for crit combos is not a good way to start up.

Seriously, most unbalanced weapon in the game compared with the stock, yet nobody can complain, because vanilla Pyro is underpowered, BUT wrecks low-level play.

I almost exclusively use the stock flame thrower for Pyro. Mainly because I don't have a killstreak Degreaser.

I have a Gold Botkiller MK II Flamethrower, and don't care much for the Axtinguisher combo, so I stick with that instead of Degreaser.

My usual loadout is Botkiller Flamethrower, Detonator (Used to be Manmelter, but then I got a Strange Detonator...), and either Back Scratcher or Neon Annihilator.

I run a Strange festive Backburner, Strange Detonator, and regular lonely powejack.

My favorite loadouts, however, are Fat Scout and Fat Spy.

Heavy with the Family Business and Eviction Notice, and Heavy with the Holiday Punch.

No Minigun allowed.

I need to get a Strange Part: Taunt Kills and a Professional Killstreak Kit for my Strange Holiday Punch.

Trying to train myself to use the Quickybomb Launcher better, I've been running a Bootlegger/QL/Scotsman's Skullcutter set and it's surprisingly effective. The QL is really damn good once you get the hang of it, and the extra speed and health from the BL is extremely useful (and I hit about one in fifty pipes anyway). Probably ideal for KOTH or other arena-style maps like Hightower.

Even after the Axetinguisher nerf, the Degreaser is still the weapon of chioce for many a Pyro. The ability to switch weapons quickly is stupid useful for clutch airblasts and reflects.

Except for the occasional Phlog I never use anything else, and when I do I feel pretty naked without the quick switching.

edited 13th Aug '15 8:00:54 PM by Karxrida

Plus, Flare and Reserve Shooter combos are good as ever.

When you can consistently hit.

edited 13th Aug '15 8:13:09 PM by Karxrida

I like hiding in the water below 2Fort's bridge, firing my Detonator at people crossing the bridge or hanging on the Sniper ledges, then Neon Annihilating them when they jump in the water to cool off.

Detonator's detonation is helpful for the bridges or people hiding behind walls.

The Degreaser needs an on-wearer penalty, because it has a very strong on-wearer bonus at the cost of negligible penalties.

Seriously, it IS unbalanced, and in a crutchlike way, as all it does is eliminating the timing part of combos.

And thanks to that they nerfed the Axtinguisher, which was a perfectly balanced weapon until the weapon switching time window was eliminated.

I'm running the Huntsman, the Carbine, and the Bushwacka.

As muslek puts it. The Critical Combo.

The Degreaser is like the only reason the Pyro is any good, and isn't actually broken. Nerfing it will not put Valve in a good place, especially concerning Highlander players.

I miss the old carbine...

Also, is it me, or is the Sniper kinda lacking in the Melee department? Shiv, Bushwacka and Shahansha, and that was it, right?

Then BUFF the base class, instead of having a weapon that is a straight upgrade and trying to balance the class around it. The Degreaser needs a nerf, AND the Pyro needs a buff, so it doesn't have to rely on gimmicks to pretend to be useful. Yeah, the quickcrits ARE a gimmick.

But then pubs complain about overpowered Pyros. Yeah really, people who have been playing this game since launch complain about overpowered Pyros more often than they should.

edited 13th Aug '15 8:58:37 PM by Eriorguez

Pyro definitely needs a buff, and the Degreaser needs to be nerfed such that it isn't the default Flamethrower.

I play in pubs but even I can see that Pyro is lacking.

The Syringe Gun has a higher DPS if you have a good aim. A Critical with a Flamethrower is as strong as normal Minigun fire.

The Pyro is versatile, but the "close range specialist" label isn't very accurate, if it has the weaker weapon in a game where everybody but the Sniper (and the Demo now) is at home at point blank.

More damage; its above average bulk and speed are compensated by the lack of range with its main weapon. Change the way the particles work to a more reliable one, and it's a deal.

I think the DPS is pretty good as is. It gives players a chance to counter W+M1 Pyros even if they get lit aflame by keeping away and firing back, but an ambush from the side or behind is likely to be fatal even to a Hoovy unless they have godly reaction time and the Pyro in question doesn't know what they're doing.

Perhaps increase its range or horizontal spread, with some damage falloff toward the edges?

On that note, a three-barreled flamethrower with decreased damage or range but a wide fan-shaped hitbox would be a neat idea for a new flamethrower.

I'd say W+M1 Heavies are more dangerous than the Pyro equivalent, which is countered by shooting at it.

The Flamethrower has a 153 dmg/sec at point blank. The Minigun has 500 dmg/sec at the same range. The Scattergun will do 210 damage at point blank in 0.625 seconds, the Rocket Launcher will do 224 damage in 0.8 seconds, and the Demoman can do 200 at any range in 0.6 seconds.

It is the weakest primary in any combat class, AND the most inconsistent one, as the particles work in wonky ways, become weaker over time rather than distance, range increases when backpedaling and decreases when moving forward, latency wrecks shit with the weapon, and it just sucks.

But hey, W+M1 as if it was a real concern.

I think the problem lies in that Valve seems to refuse to modify any of the base stats of the class itself.

Honestly, a 5-10% move speed increase for the pyro would be interesting to see.

Pyro's fine.

If by fine you mean "Weakest class in the game" then yes.

edited 14th Aug '15 6:33:26 AM by ultimatepheer

Hardly. Looking at it from a purely DPS standpoint is limiting, if it was for that Medics would suck. Yeah, flamethrowers have less DPS than other primaries, but they still chew through health at close range fast enough to kill most classes, don't need revving and barely need to be aimed. More to the point, despite being labelled as an offense class, Pyros have a lot of unique utility as support. Position control, airblasting ubers, extinguishing allies, the most efficient spychecking, guarding sentry nests, and reflecting. That's not counting more niche stuff like flare jumping, airblast combos and pyrosharking. And when it comes to flamethrower DPS, you have to consider afterburn, Backburner crits (which makes the Pyro an extremely effective ambush class), and the Phlog, which can destroy teams.

It's not the go-to class for taking on the entire enemy team (unless you're really good at airblasting), but just considering their offensive shortcomings paints an unfair picture.

I'd contest the aiming part, since more often than not a burst of flames meant to ignite an enemy just harmlessly passes by.

I also don't know why even bringing up Medics of all people as some sort of argument, particularly since you went ahead to list all the cool things Pyro does.

He's in a decent spot, but I'd say he feels a little bit weaker than other classes.