The Walking Dead

Me neither, especially when he said they're staged anyway. If this is the worst secret they were building up to the Guv keeping, I'll be pretty disappointed.

The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.

She flat out stated her problem: Treating Walkers as anything but the bogeyman under the bed, or at least a very serious threat (on the level of, say, wolves in early society*

) breeds complacency, and complacency is extremely dangerous in a zombie apocalypse.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Yeah, I get the problem that Andrea has with it. It just doesn't make the Governor seem as sinister as they apparently want us to think it does.

The last hurrah? Nah, I'd do it again.

I don't think that on its own is supposed to make us find him sinister.

It's everything in combination, keeping walker heads, killing soldiers unprovoked, threatening Michonne, et cetera.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

So the big terrible secret is that the death battles in the cage are pre-determined, huh? I've been looking for an excuse to use this:

Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great

They confirmed on The Talking Dead that Carl did shoot Lori (which was obvious to me on first watch, since the bullet was bloody and was picked off of a "wet" spot of concrete), and that the zombie didn't eat Lori entirely, but just dragged her body off screen and gorged until he could physically gorge no more.

edited 13th Nov '12 7:53:49 AM by Meeble

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I think part of the implication is that the guv'a'nah is providing bread and circuses in return for undying loyalty and devotion. Also, the people watching do not know that it is staged, or at least are not supposed to, which makes their reaction uber creepy, and the guv'a'nah is encouraging that. I think Andrea was also thinking back to how Micchone tried to tell her that not all was as it seemed in the peaceful little town of Woodbury. People cheering on what they think is a zombie cage match kinda affirms that.

kalel 94 said "Yeah, I get the problem that Andrea has with it. It just doesn't make the Governor seem as sinister as they apparently want us to think it does."

The way I see it, the cage fight aspect isn't the sinister part, nor is the fact that they're making the walkers seem less dangerous than they really are (that part's just foolish). I found it sinister and disturbing for a couple of reasons.

First and foremost, the governor and others involved in staging the fights, e.g. Merle, seem to take excessive amounts of pleasure in gratuitously mutilating "live" walkers. They're not just killing walkers, they're going out of their way to keep them "alive" so they can pull out their teeth one by one and use them as ring boundaries, or put their ("live") heads in fishtanks. The walkers serve no necessary function in the cage fights. Using them for walker-fighting practices in a safer, controlled environment could serve practical training purposes, but instead they're mutilating and taunting them simply because it amuses them. This *might* not be sinister *if* they were convinced that walkers did not suffer pain, but the fact that the governor keeps his own zombified daughter and pacifies her when he accidentally injures her suggests otherwise. It appears that he'll treat his zombified daughter like he believes some aspect of her human self remains, but happily mutilates other zombified people for fun. What happens when you put that type of person in total control of a community? I sure wouldn't want him in charge of mine.

Second, attendance at this event didn't seem to be optional. At least two people in the town did not want to attend: the scientist and Andrea (once she saw what the "entertainment" was). The governor insisted that they be there. If it's just "entertainment," then why is attendance mandatory? Even if the use of the walkers were completely innocent, there are presumably a lot of people in that town (if not most) who have watched loved ones turn into walkers or be killed by them; why should they be forced to watch a cage match likely to reawaken nasty memories if they don't want to? Why is it so important that they watch? It makes me wonder if every person who gets tossed into the ring with Merle actually volunteers... (It was never clearly established whether it's mandatory for everyone, or whether it's just Andrea and the scientist who don't get a choice, but it seemed suspicious to me.)

edited 14th Nov '12 6:39:25 PM by NotOnAnyFlatbread

Yay! Michonne's here! And she brought groceries!

Yeah. I know other things happened in the episode. Important things. But after all that speculation, Carol's - apparently - fine and hiding in a closet. Come on.

Makes sense to me. Yes she's more capable than she used to be but lost and surrounded by Walkers, hiding makes a lot of sense

Trump delenda est

Personally, I like it this way. There were really only two ways this could have gone down, she was dead/undead, or she was alive. Better we found out which it was sooner than spending an entire half-season on it. *cough*

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

I thought it was going to be a little bit later in the season before Michonne met up with the main group. Anyway, I figured that Carol would be alive, but I thought they would find her at Woodbury or something weird like that.

Well, I figured that Carol had to still be in the prison. After all, if she'd managed to escape, why wouldn't she just head right back to the others? If Carol had decided to just go off to Woodbury rather than double back and meet up with the rest of her group, she would've become the stupidest human being on the planet!

Or second stupidest human being on the planet. Andrea is pretty strong competition for that title!

I'm glad that Carol's fate wasn't left hanging for half a season like with Sophia in S2, and that judging from the preview of next week neither will Glenn's fate.

I am, on another note, wondering why the red zone is so labeled, and what's in it that's important enough to keep secret to kill whatshisface over it. I mean, yeah Merle's an impulsive ass normally, but it seems to me that the killing was excessive if not to protect something.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

I assumed the red zone was just an area overrun with walkers, hence "she's as good as dead." And Merle killed "Neil" because Merle is kind of a cunt.

"It's so hard to be humble, knowing how great I am."

Could be just that simple, but being a suspicious sort in general it occurs to me that the red zone could just be being pitched as "walker jamboree" to keep any townspeople out on patrol from wandering in on something the Gov wanted to stay hidden.

On another note, I wonder if the Governor wanted Michonne's head and sword because of Genre Savviness about Never Found the Body as well as his whole "keeping trophies" schtick.

All your safe space are belong to Trump

I think that Merle killed "Neil" because he did not want Neil blabbing to the Governor that they left Micchone alive. Also, I think it says a lot about The Guv'a'nah and Micchone that they both have Merle running scared in different ways.

edited 19th Nov '12 5:01:13 PM by denisewinters

I don't get why the Governor sent them to kill Michonne. It comes off to me as Stupid Evil. But, eh, it's really the only purely evil thing he's done, besides killing those soldiers unprovoked. Which was also Stupid Evil. I thought that he was going to at least turn them into "lurkers," but no, they go and hit them in the brain. So I guess they had to if they want to set him up as a villain that's threatening the main characters. Really though, Merle comes off as more evil.

edited 19th Nov '12 5:16:51 PM by Braincogs

Michonne said it herself nobody gets to leave Woodbury! They'll let the ignorant masses believe that leaving is an option, but it is all just an illusion of choice. The Governor isn't going to let somebody live who knows where their town is.

Also there's the whole zombie head fish tank... thing that the Governer has going on.

Keep in mind that Michonne knows that the Governor had something to do with the Guardsmen's deaths. There was no way he was ever going to let her leave alive after that. In fact, if Andrea weren't around the Governor would surely never have even let Michonne out of the gates.

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Also, I think The Governor is very controlling and will kill Megan and Glenn to keep Andrea from wanting to leave. Also, if no one else in the town knew the fights were staged, I think it says something about Woodbury that the town's people were cheering. And what is up with Merle not making Glenn drive to where his brother was as oppose to going back to Woodbury? and why did he keep tracking Micchone when he wanted to give up and turn around once she entered the "Red Zone"?

edited 20th Nov '12 4:12:00 PM by denisewinters

The answer to your first question: Because if he went back to the prison, he'd be one against seven. And there's no garauntee that they'd be unwilling to sacrifice Glenn and Maggie to kill Merle.

For the second: Merle wasn't tracking Micchone. He was heading to a location that would conceivably have a car so he could get back to town before sundown. It's coincidence that Micchone was headed in that same direction.

Merle very likely wants to kill Rick just as much as he wants to re-unite with his brother. Not only that, but a lead on a new place that the Governor can pillage supplies is probably his best bet in getting forgiveness for failing to bring back Michonne's head. Three birds one stone, for Merle.

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