Berserk

I have the PS 2 game.

Haven't played it for more than like half an hour but it's honestly enjoyable if you're a fan of the series.

THERE WAS A PS2 GAME?!

I mean, I knew there was a Dreamcast game, Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage, but - wait, are they different ports of the same title?

<does research>

....no. They are not. And it's JP-only. And now I'm sad.

edited 24th Jun '16 10:03:23 AM by EvaUnit01

If I understand correct, the PS2 game is a loose adaptation of the Millennium Falcon arc, rather than an original story like the Dreamcast game.

that's correct. iirc it ends shortly after guts gets the berserker armor and fights grunbeld (he's the last boss i think).

Ha, Millennium Falcon.

edited 24th Jun '16 11:46:01 PM by slimcoder

You're laughing, but according to the response to the letter Skullknight posters wrote Miura, Griffith's group was always meant to be "The Band of the Falcon" in reference to the ship from Star Wars.

edited 25th Jun '16 7:50:41 AM by thatother1dude

I have a feeling the new game will be very controversial for the series. At least they are showing you upfront this game will not pull punches although some things might get changed.

i feel like they're going to ruin one of the manga's most emotionally wrenching and powerful moments and turn it into stupid shock value hentai trash.

But the game doesn't look that bad for a Musou. Anyone notice he was fighting trolls in the trailer?

And I swear, Wyald better be in the game, and we better be able to cut off his dick.

Moving this from the CM thread:

"T That's all on Griffith. That he couldn't handle Guts leaving (and, you know, humiliating him in front of the rest of the Band which is a big part of why he snaps) is down to his own emotional and mental problems. And of course it was always going to happen. Griffith is obsessed with his own self-image. He has to project strength and control. When Guts tried to leave, Griffith picked a fight with him, expecting to win and strongarm Guts into staying. Instead he lost and was absolutely incapable of handling the public embarrassment and loss of prestige. So he tried to soothe his resultant panic by sleeping with the Princess ahead of schedule and it was all downhill from there due to nobody's fault but his own.

Your reading of events is transparently wrong and based on nothing except your bias. Stop making up things. Griffith didn't care one fig about losing to Guts in front of the Band. Many of those people who saw him lose volunteered to rescue him from the castle, putting their own lives at stake to try and recapture his glory.

What broke Griffith was Guts leaving b ecause, AS GRIFFITH HIMSELF SAID (and his word trumps yours every time when it comes to his motivations) it was only Guts who made him forget his ambitions. He thought of someone and something besides his castle.

"And it was always going to happen. Sooner or later somebody in the Band of the Hawk was going to see through Griffith's facade and want out, and however that went"

Griffith does not have a facade. He's very open about what he wants. The Band have, to a man, decided that their lives are not worth as much as his. They will give their lives for his glory and that's it.They were not in any way deceived.

" Oh and if Guts had known what leaving would do to Griffith he'd have probably done the right thing and just killed the SOB after their duel. He is not responsible for Griffith's problems."

I'm sure Casca would just LOVE that.

The Golden Age Arc was a tragedy, plain and simple. Griffith had everything but he lost it because of his need for control and the unforeseen variable of his affection for Guts. That resulted in a year of torture, suicidal depression and manipulation by nigh-omnipotent demons. He made the wrong choice after being pushed into a corner and people like you, who misread everything, who try to make it look like Griffith leaped over the MEH at the first opportunity, really do infuriate me because it's plainly, factually, NOT WHAT HAPPENED.

Griffith is the best character in Berserk because he's a complex, three-dimensional person and not a mustache-twirling cartoon villain. People who simplify things to that extent annoy me because it spits in the face of the masterpiece of writing that is the Golden Age Arc. Portraying Griffith as a monster-waiting-to-happen misses the entire point and is factually wrong.

edited 30th Jun '16 10:12:58 PM by Nikkolas

You're right when you say that Griffith wasn't a monster in waiting. By the time we meet him he's already a monster. Period. He's a narcissist whose every move is a carefully calculated effort to make the Band of the Hawk willing to die for him. He uses his supposed best friend as an assassin, displays no remorse over having put said friend in the position of murdering a child, and when Guts decides he wants out after that little incident tries to strongarm him into staying. Then he fails to cope with the loss of prestige and proceeds to screw himself over with Charlotte and her father, and unable to cope with that either, tries to take the whole Band down with him in the end.

The Golden Age is a tragedy alright, but not because of anything good that was lost in Griffith. It was a tragedy because Guts, Casca, and the others, all of whom were decent people, or at least had the potential to be decent people, were tricked into following a charismatic, but ultimately hollow man into the Abyss. Griffith sold them on a notion of companionship that he himself never shared, then sacrificed them all for the sake of his insane dreams of power. Griffith might have pretensions of decency, but when push came to shove he damned all his friends to Hell in the name of ultimate power, and that is not the sort of person you just suddenly become after a year of torture (and to suggest that's the case is disrespectful to everyone whose ever survived actual torture). You can only do something like that if it's who you've always been, and a shallow, cold-blooded bastard is who Griffith has always been.

And for the sake of the God I don't believe in, stop accusing me of "disrespecting the source material" or "spitting in the face of the masterpiece" or similar crap. You've said it before in these discussions and it was dumb then and dumb now. I can have a different opinion on the series without "disrespecting" it or "insulting" it or whatever ludicrous term you want to throw around. The only people who disrespect the series are the lunatic Griffith fangirls who claim Casca is lucky to be raped by somebody so pretty, and to my knowledge there aren't any of those in this thread.

edited 30th Jun '16 10:24:04 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

"You're right when you say that Griffith wasn't a monster in waiting. By the time we meet him he's already a monster. Period. He's a narcissist whose every move is a carefully calculated effort to make the Band of the Hawk willing to die for him. He uses his supposed best friend as an assassin, displays no remorse over having put said friend in the position of murdering a child, and when Guts decides he wants out after that little incident tries to strongarm him into staying. Then he fails to cope with the loss of prestige and proceeds to screw himself over with Charlotte and her father, and unable to cope with that either, tries to take the whole Band down with him in the end."

Guts is already a butcher of men, why not have him be an assassin? You make it sound like they're actually different things. As for the kid being killed, that was horrible but unforeseen as far as I could tell. Not that Griffith cared but it wasn't actually part of his plan.

And again you misinterpret everything. He didn't freak out because he lost in front of the Hawk. Nothing even suggests that.

Oh and uh, when he couldn't cope with being a helpless cripple for the rest of his life, he tried to kill himself. So yeah, you're wrong there.

"The Golden Age is a tragedy alright, but not because of anything good that was lost in Griffith. It was a tragedy because Guts, Casca, and the others, all of whom were decent people, or at least had the potential to be decent people, were tricked into following a charismatic, but ultimately hollow man into the Abyss. Griffith sold them on a notion of companionship that he himself never shared, then sacrificed them all for the sake of his insane dreams of power. Griffith might have pretensions of decency, but when push came to shove he damned all his friends to Hell in the name of ultimate power, and that is not the sort of person you just suddenly become after a year of torture (and to suggest that's the case is disrespectful to everyone whose ever survived actual torture). You can only do something like that if it's who you've always been, and a shallow, cold-blooded bastard is who Griffith has always been."

Being Tortured Makes You Evil . Take it up with the site and the dozens of writers who believe it.

The entire point of the Eclipse, and the whole thing that started this nonsense argument, was me talking about Light and Grifith. Light Yagami flat-out could not do what Griffith did because it's canon that the ONLY WAY for a sacrifice to work is if you legitimately care about them and Light never cared enough about anyone for that to work. The Count loved his wife but in a moment of shock and despair and feelings of betrayal, he sacrificed her. Griffith loved the Hawk but after exploiting his conscience and his remorse, the God Hand persuaded him to sacrifice the Band. If Griffith never cared about them, if we ignore things like his emotional breakdown or selling his body to help fund his troops so less of them will die for him, then the Eclipse never would have even happened.

But fine, I'll drop the "you disrespect the work" stuff. Sorry.

edited 30th Jun '16 10:38:54 PM by Nikkolas

If I might interject, the egg apostle implies you can always sacrifice something to the beherit because it doesn't have to be a person. he sacrificed the "world" he lived in.

I'm not sure that it was entirely about prestige. Guts beating him wounded his ego certainly but I think that was only part of the reason why he became so depressed over the event. It was more about his attachment to Guts and him being unable to have him under his thumb after that point.

edited 30th Jun '16 10:46:07 PM by wehrmacht

Having to give up the thing you care about most is not the same as saying you actually love something. Griffith cared about the Hawks as much as he could, but since he is what he is that's not very much at all. He's got no regrets—which is worth contrasting with the Count who seems like he just might.

You've referenced his suicide attempt before as if it were somehow meaningful. It's not. Narcissists commit suicide. Full blown psychopaths commit suicide. Fairly frequently, actually. It's often been said suicide is a fundamentally selfish act.

And assassins and soldiers are too very different things. Soldiers fight people who are in a position to fight back. Assassins kill helpless targets. More importantly, Guts doesn't want to be an assassin and Griffith manipulating him into it demonstrates a blatant disregard for their so-called friendship.

Certainly that's a factor too. Where I disagree with Nikkolas is in his belief that an attachment to Guts and wanting to control Guts is the same as Griffith actually caring about him.

edited 30th Jun '16 10:48:45 PM by AmbarSonofDeshar

There's a huge difference between slaughter in the battleflield and murder. It's the whole reason the term exists in the first place:

The closest thing to murder on the battleflield is sniping, which is still pretty damn traumatic.

A person gets paid and another person gets dead. I am obviously not a soldier but I don't see a difference. A carved up body is a carved up body, blood is blood and pieces of brain and viscera clinging to you are the same no matter if they got their "honorably" or with "assassination." Guts in the GA Arc is dramatically unhealthy person, borderline suicidal. He kills because it's literally all he knows to do and all he can envision himself doing. Even if you want to draw some big, moral distinction, between a soldier and an assassin, Guts at this point was just a killer told to kill.a

You said "and unable to cope with that either, tries to take the whole Band down with him in the end."

Which is why I pointed out he tried to commit suicide. He didn't intend to take the Hawk down with him. He intended to take himself out and that's all.

There's a big moral distinction in that murder is covert, an attempt at violence without repercussions or consequence. It's extremely disruptive. Killing in battlle, or even in duels, is part of the language of power. There are chances to negotiate, to surrender, to take revenge, to make amends and reparations, to prepair. When you kill "by the book", you stand up for yourself and what you did, and anyone who takes issue with it can come to you, including the authorities. When you murder and backstab, you're basically tearing a big hole in the fabric of society; people need to know that there are times and places in which they can feel safe and secure.

If you want to think of it in non-lethal terms, it's like the difference between punching someone unconscious in the ring, and beating them in the back of the head when nobody's looking and they aren't expecting it. Violence and physical damage are identical, but, socially, the two acts are worlds apart.

But Griffith lived in a Crapsack Kingdom where one of the monarchs - the linchpin of such societies - actively wants to do him in. What's the point in trying to uphold the fabric of such a society? The King and Queen were both monsters and the queen and her agents were actively trying to kill him. There is no "legal approach" he can take. The only actions Griffith could afford to take were covert ones, or risk bringing the wrath of the whole kingdom down on himself.

And at that point, his only crimes were being an ambitious man from a lower class.

edited 30th Jun '16 11:48:30 PM by Nikkolas

I don't necessarily think it's about Griffith trying to have Julius killed; it's certainly a pretty dark and underhanded to do and griffith goes about it in a pretty cavalier way, but those people had already tried to kill him, so seeing it as a "kill or be killed" makes at least some sense to me.

What is being held in question is that he got Guts involved and showed very little remorse about a little boy being killed because of the event, both of which I'm pretty sure we're supposed to see as negative anyways.

Buuuuuullshit.

He has FAR more crimes than that.

It would be a different story if HE were the assassin but he made Guts do it, who did not want that.

He's completely amoral and tge fact that his enemies are so corrupt doesn't mitigate that - because he's manipulating and hurting good people to reach his selfish goals.

by the way, speedscans for the new chapter are out. It's not a good translation by any means so waiting for Evil Genius or whoever to do it might be a good idea.

IT'S FINALLY HAPPENING GUYS WE'RE SO CLOSE

also morda looking pretty bae tbh

also

my face rn◊

edited 1st Jul '16 12:45:46 AM by wehrmacht

What crimes had Griffith committed at that point? Was prostitution illegal? That's about all I know of.

I really don't know why people are so fixated on Guts being the assassin. Guts kills people. It's what he does, his only real purpose in life at that time. Well, less a purpose since the point of Guts at this point was that he had no real purpose and was mere ly clinging to Griffith's dream like the rest of the Hawk.

As for not being sorry the boy had died, that was definitely shitty. But what was Griffith supposed to do? Mourn the loss of some kid he never even knew?

My personal reading on Griffith's reaction to the accident was that he was pleased because it would drive Guts closer to him. Griffith is good at understanding what drives people and he would know Guts never intended to kill that boy. Guts' subsequent shock from what he had done would make Guts more "his."

edited 1st Jul '16 1:14:24 AM by Nikkolas

He could have been more "Oh shit, my actions indirectly got an innoccent kid caught in the crossfire, that's not a very good leader thing to do."

The new anime is... interesting.

blood and guts and guts and blood and blood and guts...

Ironically the censorship and animation style barely lets you see either.

edited 1st Jul '16 9:40:52 AM by Zeromaeus

@Nikkolas

Guts did not want to be an assassin. Period. Griffith suckered him into being one. That is a betrayal of their so-called friendship. That you keep trying to find ways to exonerate Griffith—complete with saying that you don't see a difference so Guts shouldn't either—is what makes you a Griffith apologist. You are ignoring the feelings of his victims in order to whitewash his actions.

I mean think about what you just said. Griffith put Guts in the position of murdering a child and was happy about it because he thought it would bring Guts even closer into his orbit, and you somehow think this makes Griffith easier to sympathise with. Do you listen to yourself?

Who the fuck can defend Griffith at this point?

He is wholly, completely irredeemable. An utterly reprehensible creature who does not deserve even the bare minimum of mercy.

Even before the torture he was an asshole & a monster. The difference being Guts & crew didn't know bout it till it was too late cause as bad as he was a person, as a leader & commander, he excelled at.

edited 1st Jul '16 9:57:53 AM by slimcoder