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Rant about headcanon troll gender roles copypasted here:

I headcanon troll boobs to be a form of natural armor; troll genders are merely an expression of body type. Those who develop breasts are expected to do more fighting and be more aggressive, and that's kind of chicken-egg with the fact that trolls have an empress. Strong fighting males on Alternia are still appreciated, and maybe more because they don't have fat armor protecting their heart but can overcome this; but non-fighting females are seen as pathetic and weak, kind of like not-so-masculine males on Earth. Skirts are kind of an "I can still fight in this impractical clothing" status symbol, but they are impractical so barely anyone wears them. Gender roles were probably way different on beforus so don't yell at me about Kankri or Porrim or Latula contradicting this.

I just want to go back to kids playing games

I swear to god if I go to sleep and wake up to 3 pages worth of arguments.

Anybody got some neat cyber-Monday black-Friday haul?

You know, I seem to be the only one in this thread who's fine with the meta reasoning of "they have human traits and gender presentation because the human guy who made them probably didn't care about getting into their biology that much because it didn't matter to the story, and what he did put in was mostly a joke." thus the boobs are just boobs and don't really have to be anything but that.

Then again, part of the appeal of Homestuck seems to be that a lot of the bare bones-ness lets fans just construct all sorts of things around it. Except I don't participate in the hardcore parts of the fandom and don't get enjoyment out of this kind of thing.

I mean, seriously, if I ever get into a fictional alien's fictional biology it'll be aliens I'm making up for my own story. I don't need to make up head canons about troll biology to enjoy the characters.

I ain't a dummy, I didn't go out into that bullshit. Sides which, there'll be plenty more sales in the next twenty days.

edited 1st Dec '15 12:59:47 AM by AceofSpades

Nah, I like covering Hussie's fails with theories and fanfic *shot*

edited 1st Dec '15 1:03:06 AM by SmartGirl333

I find that theories are frequently more fail than Hussie's supposed faults.

I think BKE soured me on fan theories in general. But aanyway, making up biology for trolls isn't fan theory so much as headcanon, since it has nothing to do with anything in the story and is just speculation about alien biology.

@ace: wading into internet deals isn't that hard.

Also, I agree with u on the biology thing. Aliens have human traits because humans wrote them.

meh, i personally like coming up with headcanons but if you subscribe to the mst3k mantra that's cool too

I do subscribe, but headcanons are always fun.

I never said Dave had to be anything, but thank you for putting words in my mouth.

I'm gonna just say that if the issue were at all like what you're describing, I'd be saying the same thing about Rose, too, but I'm not, do it's obviously not at all as you're describing it.

Also I just. Love the tremendous irony of me being told I read the story wrong the whole time (which, yeah, I did, seeing as I read it as being, you know, good, but that's not really related to this) by the "all interpretations are equally valid" brigade.

All Interpretations Are Equal, But Some Are More Equal Than Others

I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable that someone doesn't love Davekat and thinks its a dumb out of universe retcon. I think you shouldn't let my opinion bother you since unlike me, the story agrees with you.

If people are going to insinuate I'm a bigot I'd appreciate if they dropped all pretense and just said it outright.

But on a lighter note, Raichu gave me a better interpretation of Rumble Spheres: Literal chest-testicles

Alright Imma sleep now. Imp, calm down or go on your PM. Nobody here was defending Davekat so much as discussing what Dave's sexuality meant in regards to the narrative and real life. Red and Inari said their piece and others felt the conversation was not worth pursuing.

After 3+ pages of this, I'm inclined to agree with them.

Just drop it

Jesus I'm really not allowed to say anything, even to defend myself

Why did I come back again? Oh yeah because I have no friends. Well apparently I really do have no friends D:

Sshhh, Imp, calm down. You can be in my evil overlord team if you want. Just make sure not to have your own contradictory plans.

If we start discussing troll biology, we're screwed. That will take 1000+ pages of pointless speculation. The writer is human and obviously crushing on Vriska, so he decided troll girls have boobs, end of story.

Just, from.the very beginning here, people have taken everything I say like it's a personal insult. Offer a theory? Personal insult. State an interpretation? Personal insult. Create a writing aid for people who want to create S___B lands in fan fiction? Personal. Insult.

Just. It's really bizarre to me and I don't understand why everyone hates me this way

I can only imagine your words come out as aggressive. Of course you mean well/neutral, but I guess you say it in a way that annoys most of people here. I guess. Since I wasn't here for the previous 8000+ pages.

To be fair to Hussie I think he assigned the trolls genders before he came up with the bizarre reproduction method that renders any sexual characteristics entirely vestigial.

IMP

I DEMAND YYOU GIVE ME THAT AVATAR

What? But it's mine, I love it. It almost makes me able to imagine what it's like to care about another person

Wow, this argument is kinda out of my depth.

Look what I found.

Grimdark Davesprite

Is there a way to hyperlink deviantart images so you don't have the DA bullshit around it?

Does this work?◊

Imp, you're a self-declared asshole. It's kind of hard to tell when you AREN'T being antagonistic.

Okay, I've gathered my thoughts a bit, so I think I can give a better rundown of my opinions on the subject of Dave and sexuality. Also, no longer on mobile.

I agree with Inari's post about people being able to have revelations or change their minds or find out more about their sexualities, especially as teenagers. But I wouldn't write off every instance of Suddenly Sexuality as bigotry or misunderstanding just like that. Thing is, a character's sexuality is part of their characterization (forgive the redundancy), and as such, it can suffer from improper foreshadowing and development just like any other trait. People are also allowed to, say, change their religious beliefs, but if a character that was previously a devout Muslim suddenly starts going on antitheistic rants with no buildup or previous indications, then that's poor characterization. Sexuality is no sacred cow in this regard.

Now, I'm not saying that this is the case with Dave. As others have said, there were hints and crumbs enough to suggest that Dave may not be straight, and it makes sense within the context of his character. My problem with Dave being with Karkat isn't that it is a case of Suddenly Sexuality, but that it came out of the blue in terms of that particular relationship. Or rather, the retcon was used as an excuse to completely rewrite a non-romantic relationship into a romantic one, to the detriment of the other alternatives. Karkat and Dave's friendship was very well written, with them evolving from legitimately hating each other (as much as Karkat is actually capable of hate, anyway) into becoming best friends, and we the audience were there every step of the way. But as far as developments of sexuality go, rewriting a relationship out of the blue into a same-sex romance is pretty poor characterization.

(I'm also not a fan of how Karkat and Terezi's arc was apparently thrown out the airlock, but that's another topic.)

edited 1st Dec '15 7:39:31 AM by Ninety

I guess I see where you're coming form, although the vast swathes of time we've skipped in their lives leaves me with the impression that the development could have taken a logical progression that we simply didn't see.

To use your analogy, it would be like the devout Muslim becoming an anti-theist because during a time skip they met God off-screen and decided that he was a prick. Jarring, annoying, but not entirely illogical.

That's Watsonian, not Doylist. I'm not saying it couldn't have happened in-universe, hell, the entire point of the retcon was changing the dynamics of the meteor crew for the "better". I'm saying relegating such a big point of characterization to "take our word for it" is a huge violation of Show, Don't Tell and poor storytelling.

edited 1st Dec '15 7:57:20 AM by Ninety