The sky-high aircraft and aviation thread:

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3851 InverurieJones2nd Jun 2012 04:36:46 PM from North of the Wall. , Relationship Status: And they all lived happily ever after <3
'80s TV Action Hero
Well, yeah, but modern governments- particularly of certain nations who shall remain nameless- are pretty damn trigger-happy as it is, even with the current (admittedly small) risk to the lives of aircrew. Remove the risk of losing aircrew and the accompanying risk of upsetting voters and you remove the last significant barrier between them and the indiscriminate use of airpower as their go-to instrument of foreign policy.

The owls are not what they seem.
3852 TamH702nd Jun 2012 04:50:02 PM from 合計虐殺 , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
Simple maxim time again.

Planes cannot take or hold ground.

They may control the airspace above it, but this is also nothing you can take for granted.
3853 TuefelHundenIV2nd Jun 2012 07:12:22 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Oh our government is indeed trigger happy with drones, planes, anything that can loft ordinance.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
3854 SabresEdge3rd Jun 2012 12:32:18 AM from the Mill on the Meuse
Tirailleurs a Magie
That said, I'd like to point you to this analysis piece. Long story short, you'd think that the fact that drones are unmanned would cause the government to use them in a manner that they wouldn't dare use with manned aircraft, but thus far this is not the case.
Those not skinning can hold a leg. — Abraham Lincoln
3855 Catfish423rd Jun 2012 02:47:16 AM from world´s favourite country. , Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Bloody Fossil
Well, they still are expensive pieces of high technology you wouldn't want in enemy hands...
I am a traveller of both time and space
To be where I have been
3856 Flanker663rd Jun 2012 12:10:30 PM from 30,000 feet and climbing , Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Blake be Praised
Interesting analysis, there. Haven't finished reading, but it looks good so far.
Locking you up on radar since '09

Time is everything; 5 minutes make the difference between victory & defeat. — Horatio Nelson
3857 Morven4th Jun 2012 10:33:29 AM from Seattle, WA, USA
Nemesis
So what IS the justification for so much drone fascination? Just new toys?
A brighter future for a darker age.
3858 TamH704th Jun 2012 02:50:53 PM from 合計虐殺 , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
Because using drones, no matter what they cost, (and I think the author of the article referred to went a bit overboard) means you do not risk one or more human crew in an operation that you want to keep quiet about, especially when there is a risk that things will end up in what Clint Eastwood's character in Heartbreak Ridge memorably called a "clusterfuck". Downed air men are a propagandist's wet dream and an intelligence gold-mine. Because almost all men and women have a point at which torture will work on them. It isn't foolproof, but pretty reliable if you need quick and dirty information.
3859 TuefelHundenIV4th Jun 2012 03:59:40 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
"Who watches the watchmen?"
3860 TamH704th Jun 2012 04:25:44 PM from 合計虐殺 , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
Interesting. I think that skydiver wanting to break the record set by Kittinger is a bit nuts, but that is nothing new for him.

You know the next step of course. Someone will want to copy Kirk and co from the reboot of Star Trek and do it from a sub-orbital vehicle.

The drone thing for LE Os is a bit disturbing. Not much different from surveillance carried out by police helicopters in practice, but a helluva lot more covert.
3861 TuefelHundenIV4th Jun 2012 07:23:34 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
I think that is the point. Not only are they more quiet, they are harder to spot and target with blinding lasers, lower maintenance, less fuel use, and have a few extra hard points.

There was an article last week about how some of the police want them armed. A lot of people went fuck no.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
3862 SabresEdge4th Jun 2012 07:51:25 PM from the Mill on the Meuse
Tirailleurs a Magie
I see them as any other tool. Wiretaps and laser microphones, for instance, are even more covert than drones, but at least in theory their use is constrained by legislation and search warrants. If you're going to get a glorified RC plane with a camera nose, why not subject it to the same kind of legislation? I see a potential Supreme Court case in the future; if history is any guide (see: wiretaps, aerial photography, or even something as universally-accepted today like the Miranda rights), the police are going to overextend on one case or another, it's going to be kicked up to SCOTUS, and when the ruling comes down there will be mass complaining about the end of the world—until they adapt accordingly to the new rules.
Those not skinning can hold a leg. — Abraham Lincoln
3863 TuefelHundenIV4th Jun 2012 08:17:01 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
The drones will likely get the same treatment as being spotted by a police helicopter. If your outside you have no expectation to privacy.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
3864 Greenmantle5th Jun 2012 07:57:43 AM from Greater Wessex, Britannia , Relationship Status: Hiding
On The Road Again
And an interesting article: The 140-Mph Chase Cars Of The U.S. Air Force.
"Britannia Rules the Waves (if only)"
3865 TamH705th Jun 2012 08:20:31 PM from 合計虐殺 , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
Wow, there is just so much that can go wrong with the uncontrolled interfaces between plane and car, or as laymen like me should call them, crashes. Those drivers and pilots must have a huge amount of guts.
3866 TuefelHundenIV5th Jun 2012 08:30:32 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
Tam: they have giant brass balls they keep in the trunk of the car.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
3867 TamH705th Jun 2012 10:48:13 PM from 合計虐殺 , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
And now the BBC Breakfast Show has a bearded professor and artificial intelligence "expert" on talking about the US drone strikes and how low level the targets are. How quaint. I couldn't catch his name but he will be back on later, his type usually are.
3868 Greenmantle6th Jun 2012 02:25:34 PM from Greater Wessex, Britannia , Relationship Status: Hiding
On The Road Again
"Britannia Rules the Waves (if only)"
3869 TamH706th Jun 2012 08:35:23 PM from 合計虐殺 , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
Ouch. They will find someone to blame for that, they always do. The BBC ceefax thingy on freeview says that the problem has now been fixed, though.
3870 Flanker667th Jun 2012 04:34:07 PM from 30,000 feet and climbing , Relationship Status: You can be my wingman any time
Blake be Praised
I wasn't expecting to see that happen. At least it's been apparently resolved. It's especially interesting that it's Manchester, since that's the airport I'll be flying out of on sunday when I go to Singapore.
Locking you up on radar since '09

Time is everything; 5 minutes make the difference between victory & defeat. — Horatio Nelson
3871 Catfish427th Jun 2012 04:51:30 PM from world´s favourite country. , Relationship Status: I'm just high on the world
Bloody Fossil
Huh, that's... a bit embarrassing, I'd say.

Anyway, question on the side, should I rather go to Farnborough Airshow or RIAT during summer holidays?
I am a traveller of both time and space
To be where I have been
3872 TuefelHundenIV7th Jun 2012 06:26:01 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
The Wave Rider Mach 5 missile is now in demand in smaller packages by the USAF

Also saw this from the Wikipedia Scram Jet Article.

On 16 November 2010, Australian scientists successfully demonstrated that the high-speed flow in a naturally non-burning scramjet engine can be ignited using a pulsed laser source.

edited 7th Jun '12 6:26:13 PM by TuefelHundenIV

"Who watches the watchmen?"
3873 TamH709th Jun 2012 08:54:45 AM from 合計虐殺 , Relationship Status: Having tea with Cthulhu
War ALWAYS changes. Man does not.
Hmm. Hypersonic missiles in smaller packages sound nice, but only if they work. According to that article you linked, that isn't always the case. If they do get them working, they will probably end up seeing if they can stick them on Predators.
3874 TuefelHundenIV9th Jun 2012 12:37:58 PM from Wandering. , Relationship Status: [TOP SECRET]
Watchmen of the Apocalypse
For an experimental weapon the hypersonic missile is doing pretty well. It is still in the test phases and isn't ready for prime time just yet. I agree the smaller version needs to be effective and they have several challenges yet to over come with the big one before they can get to the small one.
"Who watches the watchmen?"
3875 SabresEdge9th Jun 2012 02:14:55 PM from the Mill on the Meuse
Tirailleurs a Magie
Figure out the long-range supersonic challenge first, says I. There's no shortage of near-Mach-3 heavy cruise missiles with sea-skimming and very long range; they're mainly Russian and Indian. The only drawback is that they're big and heavy. Figure out a way to shrink them down to Popeye or AGM-130 size; the hypersonic stuff is, I believe, as yet far away in the future.
Those not skinning can hold a leg. — Abraham Lincoln

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