The Military Thread

I've always got a kick outta the fact the brits put tea kettles in their tanks. I've heard our(USA) guys like working with them cause they can borrow it for what ever they want to make.

A tea-kettle is indeed extremely useful, even if you don't use it for tea. Instant hot chocolate, ramen noodles, hot water for cleaning stuff, Via coffee packs, and other stuff.

I love coffee, so much in fact, that I spent 300 bones on a Technivorm Moccamaster. It was the best medium-cost purchase I've ever made. Definitely better than your ordinary Mr. Coffee or even a Cuisninart. To keep this sort of on-topic, we always put coffee makers into our Strykers for anything more than an afternoon in the field. The trucks have grounded plugs in them for that. It's going to be weird not being able to make real coffee in the field in a light unit. Then again, it's not like I didn't do that for 62 days in Ranger School, so I should be okay.

Oh, and saltwater tea is even better when you dress up as one a'them savage Red Injuns.*

edited 29th Mar '12 2:57:33 PM by Martello

There's always chewing the instant coffee straight out of the packet, though. My NCOIC was a jump-master and he talked about having to do that in Airborne school to stay awake on those long stretches of classroom time.

...I wonder what ever became of him.

I did that a couple times in Ranger, but usually I actually made the coffee with hot water and everything. I would always choose to take the extra fifteen minutes to eat the MRE properly, since to me eating was more important than sleeping. I can go any amount of time on fifteen minutes to two hours of sleep a night, but no food is no good.

^

Agreed. A good meal does way more for me than a few extra hours of sleep. That's a valuable 15 minutes.

Besides, you get more out of eating hot food, it takes less energy to digest, meaning you get more out of it than cold food. And out in the field, hot food and hot wets are good for maintaining core temperature if you're in a cold climate. Eating something oold in a cold environment makes the constant struggle to maintain your core that much more exhausting, where as eating or drinking something hot gives you a reprieve.

I wouldn't know so much about tea. Didn't drink much else until I got my first home then I switched almost totally to coffee. /scans rest of thread and backs slowly away, giggling.

I remember at Red Snow.. I walked into the tent after a few patrols through the snow, and our two "Hostage" FBI chemists who were there for the exercise were in the tent I entered. One of them hands me a steaming mess tin of liquid and tells me to drink it.

Might have been the cold talking, but that was the most delicious tea I've ever tasted.

Hey, when all you have is a hammer,,,

I know the feeling. First brew after a long assed night patrol traipsing through the fucking Yorkshire forests was brilliant. Didn't matter it was tea.

Ditto for hiking trips: not the same as a military exercise, but that thermos of hot tea feels so wonderful after a cold morning just out of the tents.

North Korea rocket launch: Japan mobilises interceptor units

I don't need to say much more, do I?

Hope the subjects in Pyongyang have factor four million sunblock.

This could get real ugly, real fast.

Hot fluids and hot meals: Simple things in the field keep you going. I was a fan of heating up my cheese spread along with the main entree so it spread better over the crackers. Hot chocolate/coffee was also a treat.

We'll see how this plays out. It has the chance to go south, but it could pan out as just sabre-rattling and blow over without much in the way of incident.

I've read a couple analyses that suggest that the US should probably continue negotiations. A rocket launch is a compromise way for the ruling faction to both show its power for the 100th anniversary of Kim Il-Sung's birth, and for a way not to be too hostile to the outside world. Mass gymnastics would look too much like caving to American demands, which is not a good sign for a precariously perched new leader to show; at the same time, it's less provocative than what the militant hardliners might want—a bombardment of the South or a third nuclear test, for example.

Always makes me think of battle mac.. Chili mac MRE mixed with crushed vegetable crackers and jalapeno and cheese mix melted in. Frigging glorious.

Battle mac is indeed awesome.

I might make some tonight for dinner just to torture my wife. I'm sure my oldest will like it, once I mention that it's "soldier food". I would have done it yesterday, but we had leftover rice to burn through.

Violence of Action: I've always been a bit fuzzy on the definition and meaning on this term. Can some of you combat-arms guys enlighten my REMF behind on it?

The closest quick word I would use to describe VOA is... Momentum. The Violence of Action is essentially being in control of the tempo on your terms. You're the one initiating the violence and the tempo, you're acting instead of reacting. If you stop or hesitate for too long, you lose that momentum and it's extremely difficult to regain. I believe it refers to being so far ahead of the enemy in your battle strategy, that while you're initiating step 3, they are still reacting to step 1.

Say you're storming a compound, lets say Osama Bin Ladens compound. Seal Team 6 had the violence of action the entire time. There was a threat to them losing that momentum when that chopper crashed, but they reacted quickly and handled it as best as they could so they could proceed with the mission.

If they had gotten pinned down from a hallway where there was good suppressive fire, and no quick flanking routes, the violence of action would have ground to a halt. In that situation, nobody has it anymore. If a reaction force had started to flank the Seal team and began to attack them from another angle, ST 6 would be the ones reacting to that enemy action, meaning the VOA would have switched to the terrorists.

That's my understanding of the concept anyway, Martello has probably has an actual education on the subject, being an infantry officer and all.

edited 30th Mar '12 1:24:36 PM by Barkey

Makes sense - he who thinks faster and can decisively act, wins.

I was reading an article about how there are three basic ways to deal with am insurgent attack in Iraq and Afghanistan: One, act defensive - hole up in cover or concealment and have air power drop some stuff on their heads. Two, fire and maneuver back to armored vehicles. Three, go dismounted and fire and maneuver to actively kill them.

The article mentioned how the insurgents have learned to avoid getting entangled with our forces for longer than a half-hour, as that's the typical time it takes for our CAS to show up. They engage, do some quick and dirty stuff, and then melt back into the background. Goes on to say that they have also learned to linger in civilian built-up areas, as we have rules about dropping air ordnance or artillery on those areas.

The article made the case that Violence of Action - taking the fight to the enemy with foot troops - is the one thing that works.

I just had to find out what that term really meant.

A few quick questions for whoever has experience on the subject.

Barkey, have you ever taken the PAST for CCT and Pararescue? I'm getting different numbers and standards on the requirements for each section of the test, and I wasn't sure if you kept up with that information. It has been my understanding that many people who repeatedly fail the PAST apply for Security Forces. Correct me if I've been misinformed.

Martello, are you familiar with the 18X enlistment option? I've been researching this career option for about two years now, and any first-hand knowledge would be appreciated. I've spoken with two people in person on the subject. One person is apparently going through the training at the moment. I haven't heard from him in several months, which is probably a good thing. The other person was dropped from the program due to getting a bloody nose from a 25-foot drop during a rappelling exercise. He told me that candidates basically have to avoid injuries at all cost or they will be immediately terminated from the program.

The attrition rate for any SOF is understandably high, but I have a wealth of resources within reach and it's at least worth trying, regardless of the branch. Alongside a career in law enforcement, this is all speculation, but significant speculation. I'm almost done with my MA, and it's time to change gears. I'm ready for something new, and those student loans aren't going to pay for themselves.

I'll keep training and let you all know what decision I make in the upcoming months. Just for the record, an SOF career is NOT something I just decided to study on a whim. I've been training, questioning veterans and consuming vast amounts of literature on the subject since puberty, so this isn't something I'm taking lightly. The same goes for law enforcement.

I have several options at the moment including but not limited to teaching, publishing, criminal justice, military (preferably special operations, linguistics or both) or government work. I've already worked for the government once under the Department of Education, so I might do that again. We'll see.

edited 30th Mar '12 4:00:26 PM by Aprilla

I don't know a whole lot about it, but I know lots of people who've taken it and passed/failed. When I was in boot, we had one guy who was a CCT who took it, he had to do it during basic with all the other recruits from the various training squadrons of that cycle. He passed, probably off blowing up shit somewhere right now, I haven't heard from him since boot.

Now the thing is, it isn't that if you fail PAST you apply for security forces, it's that if you fail PAST, or any portion of the training to where you get recycled out of the program, then they put you in SF in most cases. Open General(if you have no job reserved during boot, or you fail technical training in a career field) is what you get put into. In the Air Force, it has the wonderful nickname of "Open Sec For"

Most of those guys I knew were really bitter, they were people I knew while at academy. Guys who do things like shatter ankles rappelling, break bones in various other ways, fail tests, or can't swim well enough. They end up in SF because we're the only non-special operations combat arms group in the AF, and they figure they want to put those gung-ho guys who wanted to be combat in the only other place they fit in.

The reality of it is that most of the born and bred for AFSOC types who fail would be better served going to a smart career field, because they find themselves frequently frustrated with the kid gloves that Security Forces are treated with in terms of intelligence.(We're given strict orders, not a whole lot of flexibility in command decisions, etc) And they frequently find themselves washed out of the military because they can't get with the program. Can't really blame them sometimes I guess, I've had plenty of trouble "getting with the program" and I signed up for Sec Fo.

Edit: Aprilla, when you finish your MA, you might want to look into the investigative divisions of the different branches. OSI/NCIS/CID. I think something like that, you would find enjoyable. I've been interested in the prospect of going to OSI for some time, though I have no idea how to do so.

edited 30th Mar '12 4:19:37 PM by Barkey

Personally, I think the best thing that could happen is the rocket destroy itself in launch. The North Koreans could complain about "sabotage", but the Japanese wouldn't have to shoot it down and it would prevent an incident.

Barkey, I'll be sure to look into the investigative divisions. That might be a good segue into civilian law enforcement. I've already submitted an application to the FBI via a relative, but he said that they will literally spend 4 to 6 years just letting your application collect dust while they "watch" you. Browser history, traffic violations, certain people you associate with, etc. North Little Rock might have some openings in SWAT over the next few years, so I'm speaking with experienced officers on that, as well. I'd rather not work for my home town. Too many officers from other cities nearby complain that they're a Boy's Club, and I won't name any names.

I've actually looked into Security Forces, and I ran across an SF guy at the gym after teaching a class. He said he thoroughly enjoyed it. He came to Arkansas to get started on a degree by using his GI benefits, and he seems to be generally satisfied so far. However, like any job, I understand it has its downside. I've been paying very close attention to your comments about your daily work, and while your experiences don't color the entire SF community, I do take them into consideration. It has its bad days and good days, just like grad school. Believe me, I've had weeks where I was seriously considering the idea of telling my advisor to find another student, but I'm glad I stuck with it.

One of the major discouragements I've received is that many of the jobs I'm researching are, to put it bluntly, below my intellect. SOF types are very intelligent people from what little I've seen, and I tend to be more comfortable with highly erudite individuals who can actually keep their shit together. I don't mean to imply that non-SOF people are inept and anti-intellectual, as we have several service members on this thread who defy that notion at present. Military justice and federal law enforcement seem right up my alley, and there are a moderate number of SOF veterans who go on to have successful careers in agencies such as the DEA, Customs, the Department of Energy, Secret Services and US Marshals.

edited 30th Mar '12 5:01:04 PM by Aprilla

Aprilla: if you do go try for SOF then I wish you luck, man.

Mark, have you thought of taking that route?

If I decide to make the Army a career I might try out for the Rangers, but I'm just going to focus on getting through basic and AIT and then being a good soldier first.

I dunno yet. I'll make those kinds of decisions about halfway through my contract of whether I want to make it a career or use my GI benefits to go to college.

edited 30th Mar '12 5:07:52 PM by MarkVonLewis