The Military Thread

Well, the cheeky answer is that the British used a lot more American equipment than the other way around, which is an automatic plus for American gear.

But American gear did tend to close the gap with, and in many cases surpass, their British counterparts as the war went on. The American Tench-class submarines were quieter, much more heavily armed and packed a bigger battery capacity than the British V-class. The B-29 Superfortress packed all the cutting-edge electronics of late-mark Lancasters while flying much faster and farther. The "Easy Eight" Sherman and the Cromwell Mk IV were, well, functionally the same in combat – but the former was built to be easily serviced and shipped en masse across the Atlantic, which was the kind of thing that made real differences in the war.

I'm not familiar with the specifics of combat training for any country, but US Army artillery, at least, was renowned for dropping rounds for effect within minutes of a call for fire, as well as sophisticated drills like "Time-on-Target" barrages that even British artillery were hard-pressed to replicate. US artillery SOPs were genuinely very advanced for the time: I don't have a source on hand, but IIRC, they had reams of pre-calculated firing solutions from the best available pre-war topographic maps of Europe, which basically allowed their fire direction units to take out a tape, stretch it between two points on a map and immediately provide a firing solution to all available gun batteries.

The thing is both were active during everything gar mentioned, however for an rts this becomes easier.

The starting lineup should be filled with cheap emergency production crap, that sticks around to a mid game weak period before ramping up into some end game units that are very heavily armored and armed.

Compared to a generaly even progression curve for the US, the UK would take its time to get going.... but once it does...

Its technicly an inverse of what really happened... but starting with really good units that wear out into crap as the conflict goes on is substantially harder to ballance gameplay wise.

What makes this a more interesting comparison is that US and British involvement in the war follow different curves. The Brits got into it in 1939 and began getting some real-world data for what needed to be improved combined with the urgency of an active fight on their hands. The US, meanwhile, was making some rapid and extensive improvements throughout 1940 and 1941 based on what was going on in Europe, but didn't get that "Oh shit" urgency until 7 December 1941. 1942 to early 1943 is kind of wild as the US scrambles to get into a full war-footing, with this period including civilian aircraft doing anti-sub patrols along the US coasts.

By late 1945, the US had nuclear bombers, jet fighters, and over a hundred(!) aircraft carriers, whether or not you include the two that were exclusively used for training on the Great Lakes.

Edited by AFP on Mar 22nd 2024 at 6:05:59 AM

Yeah, that's something that aggravated me a lot when I started researching the real-life counterparts of my setting's factions, hoping to draw inspiration from what they were doing during the WW2 and/or the Cold War eras. Hard to make a distinct British faction when most of its best gear explicitly consists of US exports (e.g. the Sherman Firefly).

So in Faction Calculus terms, you're suggesting the UK faction to be an early-game Spammer and a late-game Elitist?

Edited by MarqFJA on Mar 26th 2024 at 1:01:26 PM

https://new.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1boe9rf/a_story_in_two_acts_the_russian_wrote_madyar_is_a/

A Ukrainian drone saw the Russian writing that says "Madyar is a fa**ot".

Madyar has a unit called Madyar's Birds, a Ukranian Marine Corps unit made up of volunteers that use drones.

Check me and A Song of Ice and Fire on this: Insubordination is normally a big deal in military chains of command, yes? Like, if you directly defy an order by a superior for petty reasons (e.g not liking said superior), you are probably due for a court martial/dishonourable discharge or equivalent/firing squad?

Yes failure to obey an order can get you bought up on court martial. My grandfather supposedly was bought up on court martial for failure to obey an order to get out of bed, though he managed to defend himself on the grounds that he was just okaying the order slowly due to a physical handicap (he needed to get his glasses first).

Freedom to ‘interpret’ orders comes with rank, so more senior staff can get away with more. You also get complications when multiple chains of command are involved, nobody wants to get one order from an officer in their chain of command then a different order from a more senior officer who isn’t in their chain of command.

That’s without factoring things like multi-national command structures or civilians with nominal rank equivalency.

I guess nobody has anything else to add to the discussion about my question?

That last one reminds me of the incident during the Kosovo War when British Lt. Gen. Michael Jackson defied orders from US Gen Wesley Clark (both operating as part of a NATO force) to storm the Pristina airport before the Russians could take over it, because he was "not going to start Third World War" for him.

Edited by MarqFJA on Mar 29th 2024 at 5:28:21 PM

If it's about your WWII FPS and how to make the UK a separate faction with its own tanks rather than using Sherman Fireflies, what year in the war is the game set that you want the UK's own tanks to be focused upon as a contrast to the Sherman Firefly?

It's a Command & Conquer: Red Alert Series-based Alternate History that takes a more serious approach to the setting and tries to make use of historical weapons and vehicles whenever possible, even if they're modified with this Alternate History's weird tech.

In this setting, Britain's depiction depends on the period.

• Alternate WW2 (1947 to 1953): It's one third of the trinity of great powers that form the bulk of the European Allies' military and economic power, the other two being non-Nazi Germany and France. The actual faction is the European Allies, Britain is a subfaction within it.
• WW3 and onwards (1989-???): Britain split from the European Allies (now the European Federation) due to its refusal to decolonize like its continental neighbors decided to (for various reasons, the British Empire did not experience the decline that forced the UK to let go of the colonies one by one), and especially because it invaded and occupied the Republic of Ireland over its covert alignment with the USSR during the alternate WW2 and backstabbing the UK as a result, and then annexed the country on grounds that "it was a mistake to give them independence" (because of the aforementioned "backstabbing").

Yes, I am well aware by now that I'll probably have to invent the bulk of the arsenal wholecloth for the post-WW2 period, since the UK has precious little in the way of usable historical military gear from that period that were domestic creations rather than imports.

Edited by MarqFJA on Mar 29th 2024 at 6:47:18 PM

That kinds seems like an easy problem to solve, assuming every other European country didn't also have some tremendous economic collapse instead of England.

Just close borders and watch England starve to death like they did to themselves with Brexit.

https://tvpworld.com/76702098/polish-president-signs-law-suspending-the-treaty-on-conventional-armed-forces-in-europe

Poland announced suspension of Treaty on Conventional Armed Forces in Europe (CFE).

Previously, Russia dropped the treaty on their end.

Did you really feel compelled to simply shut down my idea instead of offering anything constructive?

All right, that was a bit curt. I apologize.

But it's a bit of a valid hole to poke no?

You ask a lot of questions here about a lot of often somewhat specific details so obviously you care a good deal about creating an authentic feeling setting but well produced details and accuracy to real life models and minutiae can create a bit of an expectation and a tone.

Sometimes it can be counterproductive if the overall setting itself is much more cartoonish and colorful.

You bring up Red Alert and that's a great example, Red Alert is full of these delightful and silly units, double barrel superheavy tanks, trained attack dolphins, tesla troopers, rocketeers, whatever is happening is basically all of RA3.

Cartoonish units for a cartoonish setting.

But doing something like slavishly recreating real life units and getting their details correct actually creates a juxtaposition with a more outlandish scenario that can sometimes be jarring.

I'm having a bit of a hard time getting a feel for the tone you want. You ask questions with an attention to detail that'd fit more into something like Company of Heroes or sometimes even "harder" games but then you bring up Red Alert and other classic RTS games that completely eschew a realistic base, and for good reason mind, and I find it difficult to give you the answers you want.

The orders weren’t to storm the airport before the Russian took it, the orders were to drive units onto the runway of the already Russia-occupied airport.

The entire thing hinged on the Russians in the airport not shooting at the NATO forces coming strait at their position and the Russian planes not deciding to try and land even with NATO units on the runway.

Wow, even worse than I was misremembering it as. Yeah, I'm even gladder that he flipped Clark the bird.

Oh, I see the problem: we're having a miscommunication here, partly because I forgot I'm not in the C&C thread. Most regulars there know that I have a very low opinion of the cartoonishness that the Red Alert series had embraced from the 2nd installment onwards. As much as the first game was obviously B-movie quality in its live-action cutscenes, it at least took the conflict that was driving the plot quite seriously.

Hell, the Soviet campaign of the first game opens up with a shockingly clinical discussion of the aftermath of a Soviet-perpetrated massacre in Poland using Sarin nerve gas, including the differing speed of death between children and adults, between Stalin and his inner circle, and then you're ordered to exterminate a Polish town for the crime of resisting the Soviet occupation, with a lovely post-victory cutscene showing Soviet propeller planes machine-gunning thankfully off-screen civilians (and an Empathy Doll Shot unfortunately reminding you that innocent children most definitely were among the casualties). Oh, and first-time players are forced to play the Soviet campaign first. Other Soviet missions also explicitly have you commit similar war crimes, with the actual Allied military being sometimes just a secondary concern.

For simplicity's sake, something like this is more representative of what I'm imagining than what you know from the canon games.

Also, you don't have to worry about any "slavishness" to realism; in fact, I don't like how people assume that realism is a binary option rather than a scale/spectrum of practically infinite degrees. I am more than willing to break with reality if it doesn't suit my purposes; for example, I've already resigned myself to the likelihood that I'll have to invoke Alternate History and make the Harrier a highly potent VTOL strike fighter rather than an arguably "just okay" V/STOL ground-attack aircraft.

Edited by MarqFJA on Mar 30th 2024 at 5:13:04 PM

Correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that game open with Albert Einstein traveling back in time to kill Hitler? Everyone is allowed their own interpretation, of course, but I always got more of a 40k-style campy grimdark vibe from it rather than gritty realism

It’s the series that has Albert Einstein time traveling to kill Hitler in the first game with a handshake, the second game involving the Soviet traveling into the time of the dinosaurs and into space (don’t forget the descendent of the Romanov Dynasty that the Allies made the puppet leader of the SU and his psychic mystic Yuri whose mind control are powerful enough to majorly swing the war), and the third game starring Tim Curry as the leader of the Soviet Union..until he escapes to the ONE PLACE THAT IS NOT CORRUPTED BY CAPITALISM-SPAOUCE!

Oh and the Japanese campaign in Red Alert 3 which had giant samurai robots attacking Berlin.

It may have been a gradual progress but the series got into its real goofy, B-Movie groove soon after the first one.

Edited by fredhot16 on Mar 30th 2024 at 1:51:10 AM

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1brdjob/the_russian_military_has_begun_setting_up_mockups/

An interesting dummy the Russian military's using to try and draw fire from the Ukrainians and make them waste ammo.

Yeah, that's about right. To be fair, the handshake thing is implied / has been typically interpreted as a sign of the primitiveness of early Chronosphere technology causing time-displaced subjects to be inherently unstable; physically interacting with solid-body native entities causes them to be erased from existence and the time travel to be sent back immediately, while Chronosphere-teleported units in-game always return to their original position after a short while.

Edited by MarqFJA on Mar 31st 2024 at 9:56:22 PM

More on-topic and a cross-post from the War in Ukraine thread: France to send old armoured vehicles, new missiles to Ukraine

Summary:

1. Old VAB armored personnel carriers (had to use a non-Wikipedia link due to how the Wikipedia link doesn't stick to the acronym) and Aster-30 surface-to-air-missles by France to be given to Ukraine.

2. Remotely operated ammuniton also to be delivered to Ukraine this summer.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/U-V7gGZPUkQ

United 24 made a YT short video of a Ukrainian soldier using a Stinger to take out a cruise missile.

The Republic of Korea's Ministry of National Defense decided that staff sgt. Byun Hee-soo, the ROK's first openly transgender soldier died due in the line of duty. Thus allowing her to be buried in a national cemetery and her family to receive benefits.

In 2019, staff sgt.Byeon underwent gender-affirming surgery. However, the military discharged her from the military, claiming that going through gender-affirming surgery was a disability that made her unfit to serve. She sued the Republic of Korea Army demanding reinstatement, and won in 2021. However, she took her own life before the verdict came out. The military said that she was a civilian who took her own life for reasons not related to her service, and thus her family would not be eligible for benefits. However, the Military Accidental Death Investigation Commission asked to reconsider the decision, and the Ministry of National Defense decided that she has died from depression caused by her unlawful dismissal, and thus her death was due to the execution of her duties.

~Tuefel Hunden IV A most cursed clip floated my way today and I was told I had to make sure you were aware of it.

Personally what I'm curious about is whether it'd actually work or not.

Edited by LeGarcon on Apr 4th 2024 at 9:00:44 AM

Hearing news that the Israeli military's calling for its troops who are on leave with a combat-capable unit to report in after reports suggest that Iran may do an attack on Israel due to an airstrike IAF jets conducted in Syria.

Also, GPS spoofing is being done.