Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
The difference is, Honey has an actual character, since she is basically an expy from Virtual Fighter, and she became canon with the re-release, there is nothing wrong with the character unlike the Tails Doll.
And hey, I like the Tails doll when he was a creepy plushie. He was adorable and creepy.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
Now a lurker. See you at the forums.
I don't remember a lot about that cartoon, I know she fall in love with Robotnik robot son. I hope that doesn't get adapted, but this is just me.
To win, you need to adapt, and to adapt, you need to be able to laugh away all the restraints. Everything holding you back.
^^ ? That link links to generic page
edited 21st Sep '14 8:47:49 PM by SpookyMask
Are there any Nicole fans here? She is probably one of my favorite characters of the comic. I love when an AI character (I'm not counting robots or Digimon) is an actual character and not just a tool that spouts off exposition and, at best, delivers the occasional snarky remark.
So, I finally got around to reading most of the series'.
Overall, I'm enjoying it. The evolution from a gag series into a serious one was slow enough that it held together moderately well. (I don't even mind 108 that much. It's only fitting that Robotnik's return should have been in his cartoonish style of plot.)
Pacing issues... I'll just say it's Better on DVD. It's easier for me to gloss over plot holes when I personally didn't need to wait years for Iron Dominion to finish up.
Penders vs Flynn, I have to say that Flynn is better at snappy dialogue. And while Pender's additions to the cast and mythos were unnecessary, they were also likable and it's sad to see them go. Shame that Penders is so against the defining characteristic of comic book writing - that authors come and go, while the characters will continue on without them.
One the one hand, the comic has been a bit of a mess before the reboot, and new readers can catch up without reading the old books. On the other hand this meant that many characters and arcs have been removed all because of a writer who doesn't want to let go of his characters when he leaves. I hope that things work out and Archie gets the characters back. (Also a TV show based on the comics in case Sonic Boom doesn't work out.) Though why did they do a reboot like it was continuing the story and act like nothing has happened (sort of) and not just retell the story from the very beginning?
Speaking of characters, since the first crossover with Megaman retconned everything, do you think there would be another retcon after the next crossover series? Like maybe all of the Sonic Universes merge with each other, every universe merging with each other, even end the current Sonic series and start a brand new one? What if they go End of Evangelion on us and destroy everything?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
There's pretty much zero chance of another reboot or a Sonic-universe-merger. The first reboot only ever happened because Penders got uppity and effectively won ownership of the characters and concepts created during his tenure. Ian's still got plans for Sonic even though the previous continuity had to be retconned out. Thus, there's no need for another reboot.
And there's no way to really do a merger without appeasing Penders (which will never happen, as his stipulations include effectively advertising his "original" story, The Lara-Su Chronicles, and deferring to him for literally any story decision, as well as paying him for every use of his characters and concepts) and navigating the tangled web of IP ownership of the various Sonic spin-off media (also ridiculously unlikely, as some I Ps, such as the OVA, were owned by companies that don't exist anymore and did not return to Sega following their dissolution).
It's for these reasons why Archie is only allowed to use game characters, Di C-made cartoon characters (read: characters that originated in AoSTH and SATAM; it's unknown whether there's anything stopping Ian from introducing Underground characters), and characters created by Ian Flynn himself that are unconnected to characters and concepts by previous writers (hence why Scourge had to go, as he was a continuation of Evil Sonic, who was "created" by Penders).
The fact is, Penders wants to have Archie and Sega to be completely at his mercy, and he will accept absolutely nothing less. Sad as it was to see them go (especially since Ian still had plans for them, and had cleaned up much of Penders' mess on his own), the old characters and concepts will never return.
I love the fact that penders whole shit fit started because the echidnas in the dark brotherhood game were too close to his echidnas but evil sonic is a totally original charactwe
How exactly does one get away with claiming that an evil version of an existing character is their original creation that they have rights to?
A lot of people believe Ken Penders sued Archie whereas it was the other way around.
http://www.bumbleking.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6342&start=3750#p430722
"It's not really the same thing but usually I'll see the terms "fan characters" or "fan fiction" thrown around despite the fact the book's an official licensed product.
There's a ton of inaccurate information about the Penders debacle that continues to persist to present, largely I think due to the fan base's treating Penders like the root of all evil, but that's neither here nor there."
The Protomen enhanced my life.
I think Evil Sonic is kind of in this weird legal limbo. Essentially, Sega and Archie can't use him because Penders claimed him as an "original" character, but Penders effectively can't use him either because (under his own pen; remember, he has outright stated that he doesn't consider anything by other writers to be canon and that he would ignore anything and everything Ian wrote if he were to hop back in the Sonic writer's saddle) he's literally nothing but an evil Sonic (and Sega could probably sue Penders' britches off if he actually calls him "Evil Sonic"). So, basically, nobody can use Scourge.
edited 10th Jun '15 9:50:38 PM by TrashJack
I thought archie only sued him first because he was raising shit about the dark brotherhood game and it's echidnas a d was gonna sue Sega and bio ware
IIRC, he sued Sega and EA (the new owner of BioWare) over Sonic Chronicles. The case was thrown out by the judge (due to the Statute of Limitations, he can't sue again unless characters and concepts from Chronicles are re-used, so that game is effectively non-canon), but it prompted him to copyright "his" characters for use in The Lara-Su Chronicles. Archie filed a cease-and-desist to Penders, but he refused to go along with it, and it went to court.
This resulted in Archie suing him, but it turned out Archie lost his contract (one account claims a fire destroyed it; another claims a careless employee lost it) and could not prove that he didn't own the characters and concepts (Archie fired their entire legal team after this horrendous blunder). Thus, he effectively "won" the case (they settled, but in a way that overwhelmingly favored Penders).
Then, he eventually said Archie could continue to use the characters and concepts, provided Archie and Sega did the following:
- 25 Years Later had to be the canon future in the comics, no matter what
- Julie-Su, Lara-Su, and Locke were completely off-limits for Archie's use
- He would be paid for every use of "his" characters and concepts
- Any and all past stories involving Lara-Su had to meet his approval before being printed
Naturally, Archie could not go along with this, and rebooted the Sonic comics at the end of the Mega Man crossover.
edited 10th Jun '15 11:15:05 PM by TrashJack
Given the reality of the present situation, I'm not entirely sure I'd say that Sega got that raw a deal given what Ian Flynn's managed to do with the comics himself and where Penders is sitting.
Admittedly, it's not ideal and really shouldn't have happened, but I'm guessing the situation is hurting Penders a lot more than it's hurting Sega.
edited 10th Jun '15 11:37:36 PM by TheSpaceJawa
If it were me I would've went all the way with the reboot. Apparently, they way they did the reboot was make a genesis wave, erase some characters, and then we move on like nothing happened, and they were still continuing the story. With some minor details left out here and there, but otherwise everything's the same. When I hear "reboot" I expect them to start at the beginning of the story and retell the events of what originally happened, then make their new stories.
Sega got out okay. Penders has become pretty much a joke among the Sonic fandom, and absolutely nobody except Penders himself is looking forward to The Lara-Su Chronicles, but he seems to think otherwise.
Archie, however, is walking on eggshells, trying not to incur Penders' wrath by doing anything too similar to him, lest he sue again (and prompt Sega to finally revoke the Sonic license). It's not an exaggeration to say that the Sonic books are among Archie's top sellers, if not their top sellers, so losing Sonic would be the company's death knell. With Ian at the helm, they've been doing well so far, but there have been some pitfalls.
For example, with Penders claiming Evil Sonic and all of the characters from the opposite-morality world (indeed, seemingly the concept of Sonic having a traditional multiverse at all [traditional meaning Marvel and Pre-Crisis DC-styled, where divergent timelines and "What If"s can create separate universes]), Archie cannot have an evil duplicate of Sonic or a traditional multiverse. Ian has managed to spin this into a multiverse consisting of the main comics world, the Sol Dimension, and the Boom universe. With Worlds Unite, it seems to be leading into a joint Sega-Capcom multiverse, where each IP is its own world rather than divergent Sonic timelines and "What If"s.
Honestly, Ian deserves a lot of credit for rolling with the punches the way he has.
Nothing post-reboot was what Ian had planned to do after Worlds Collide. The "Lost Hedgehog Tales" are a testament to this. The vast majority of characters and concepts had to be excised due to the lawsuit (not just Penders-owned ones, but also all those introduced by non-Flynn authors [aside from those who originated in the games and the American cartoons] as well) Indeed, the initial plan for the reboot was that nobody would remember the previous world. An editor managed to convince Ian to change it so that Sonic, Eggman, and a few other characters would remember, but only for a short time before those memories faded away, in order to ease old readers into this new world.
Much of the old stories have been replaced by the games' stories. The new timeline has pretty much every main game in the series, save Unleashed (because Ian is loosely adapting that into his "Shattered World" mega-arc, which started right after Worlds Collide and will continue after Worlds Unite). Yes, this means that in the new Archie Sonic timeline, Colors and Generations happened before Unleashed (IIRC, Ian has explained this by having Generations!Rooftop Run be a glimpse of Sonic's future, rather than his past). In addition, aside from the games being canon to the new timeline, Ian has said that there is a completely new history from before Sonic's meeting with Mega Man (which still happened, according to Worlds Unite, but the Sonic characters now believe it to have happened in their new world rather than the old one), but that he hasn't had time to fully explain it yet.
edited 11th Jun '15 12:06:34 AM by TrashJack
If comics started from beginning than a) It would be close to impossible to write Sonic Universe spin-off book about side-characters, b) It would take forever to bring back fan-faves like Shadow, c) Flynn would have to somehow justify redesigns between Classic and Modern characters.
IIRC, wasn't one of Sega's post-reboot mandates that Classic Sonic could not be depicted in the comic? Hence why the S3&K flashbacks in Sonic and Knuckles' prizefight depicted the modern versions.
Although this really raises some questions with Generations being included in this timeline. Did Archie!Classic Sonic and Archie!Modern Sonic simply look identical to each other?
I dunno, artwork is usually vague in those scenes but Classic Amy for example definitively showed up few times in flashbacks. Its seems that they're not allow to hint that characters age and that leads to...weird stuff. For example we only see Classic Eggman in first reboot issue. Every other time he's in silhouette.
is on the verge of a great collapse today
Speaking of Sonic and Archie, there's a guy wearing a Sonic hat in the first issue of Mark Wad's Archie reboot. It's like a less stupid, beanie version of the Sonic Colors hat they gave out at Game Spot and I'd legit consider buying it if someone at Sega noticed that shit (this is coming from someone who usually doesn't wear gaming/dork/weeb clothes so I dunno what that says about me.)
Lost Hedgehog Tales chapter 1 is out. Get to troping! XD
http://bumbleking.com/?page_id=512
The Struggler
So, would anyone like to read a text review for issue 134?
You gotta start somewhere.
Oh, trust me. Going through Penders twitter, his forum and the various statements he's made reveals a rabbit hole of entitlement and egomania that staggers belief. While it's a fortunate thing that the Small Name, Big Ego page no longer accepts real life individuals, he would very easily have been the image for the trope. He is one of the single greatest living examples of the trope in real life you could ever hope to witness.