Cleanup needed: Christmas Cake

I've noticed that Christmas Cake tends to pick up a lot of examples of women who are over 25 but do not really fit the 'and this is a bad thing' part of the trope. For example, Satsuki in Kaichou Wa Maid Sama is 30 but absolutely no one makes a big deal of it, it doesn't affect her behavior and doesn't really mean anything. From a casual glance down the page, I noticed it also had bad examples on the page itself. I started to clean them up and then realized that I'm just not familiar enough with the series in question.

I don't think it needs a rename, but it definitely needs some cleanup done.

What part of the trope says this is a bad thing?

I'm pretty sure a Christmas Cake just means a single woman over 25. Similar to the term Old Maid it implies she needs to hurry up and get married.

edited 16th Oct '10 7:16:24 AM by Sackett

"And no matter how attractive a woman is, no Japanese male will want to marry her after she's 25. Thus, "Christmas Cake" is used as a metaphor term for what Western audiences might call an "old maid.""

If she's over 25 and still hot and active in the dating scene she's not Christmas Cake, she's stacy's mom.

Not always actually. If the character is 26, the people crushing on them have to be 11 for it to count. The people they are flirting with have to be young enough to be their kids to make them Stacy's Mom. We don't have a trope for hot older women who are hit on by people their own age.

edited 16th Oct '10 8:51:25 AM by shimaspawn

Okay, but she's not this trope.

I'm pretty sure this trope is just "single woman over 25" That's even what the redirect is.

Sure there is the implication that she needs to hurry up and get married, but that is a societal expectation.

The term "Christmas Cake" actually just means a single woman over 25.

Just as Cake Eater means a man who prefers to date Christmas Cakes.

edited 16th Oct '10 10:39:51 AM by Sackett

Being over 25 isn't a trope, though. It doesn't affect the work specifically - the specific connotation that women over 25 are undatable is what is tropable.

Indeed. In fact the use of the term implies that belief by the person using the term.

So maybe the trope should be: In story, a woman over 25 is stated to be, or implied to be, past her shelf life.

After all, even if the woman is still dating and hot- that doesn't mean that the trope isn't in play if other characters think she is a Christmas Cake.

That's I usually see it used anyway. We should probably add Old Maid as a redirect.

Sackett, that's already what the trope is defined as: "Thus, "Christmas Cake" is used as a metaphor term for what Western audiences might call an "old maid.""

I think you take the "undatable" part a bit too literally. We even have a Cake Eater page for people who date with these "undateably" old women.

I agree that simply being over 25 doesn't make this a trope, but as long as it's implications are referenced, it is already a trope, even if she happens to find someone.

It's no less a trope that fat women are considered unattractive because of the Chubby Chaser trope. It's no less a trope that older women are considered undateable because of the Cake Eater trope. The work just has to put forth the idea that she's considered unattractive now, even if she does find someone eventually, to qualify.

edited 16th Oct '10 11:58:27 AM by Yamikuronue

^ I don't think the work has to put forward that idea.

Just a character inside the work.

The problem is that the women are often merely over 25 while there is no indication that this is a 'bad' thing or that they need to hurry up and get married. The teacher from Lucky Star? Christmas cake. Yukiji in Hayate No Gotoku? Also christmas cake. The Satsuki example from above? Not so much.

My understanding is that its a character type. It's not just "a woman over 25" it's a "a woman over 25 who is either desperate to get married or has given up on it". Basically someone who buys into this for themselves. Like Pettanko, its both a description and an associated personality type.

edited 16th Oct '10 12:13:19 PM by Clarste

^ What if she hasn't bought into it, but the other characters look at her and treat her that way?

If she vehemently objects to it then i think that would count too. If its just something other people mention when she's not around I'm not sure.

If she's been treated like that, it's a point being made in the story and qualifies. Even if it's not to her face.

What Arha said

So, it's similar to how the the now-split Pettanko is not just "flat chested girl," but "Character who is to some extent defined by her flat chest."

Which is to say, this trope is not "Unmarried woman over 25 years old," but "A character who's unmarried status at her age is an important part of her character."

Pretty much. I think they still have to be reasonably young though.

Well, the thing is that "Christmas Cake" is a real life term that means exactly: "Unmarried woman over 25".

The use of the term however implies a judgment by the user of the term, that women over 25 are too old to get a husband, just like nobody buys a Christmas Cake after Christmas (the 25th).

So the trope carries with it the implication that the woman identified as a Christmas Cake is unmarried and past her sell by date.

I would think that if in the show a woman is identified as unmarried, and too old to attract a husband, then she is this trope.

Even if it is only one character in the show that takes such a position. Even if the woman rejects being labeled as too old. Even if the woman is indifferent to the matter.

If a character in the show takes this position about a female character, then the show is in fact using the trope. No matter how much the woman cares or does not care about the matter.

So

On the Christmas Cake page the examples would look like this:

• My Show: Bill considers Sara to be one, since she's 26. Sara disagrees with him.
• Your Show: Everyone thinks Eloise is being foolish, since she still thinks she'll find a husband, even though she's 31. They never say so around her, though.
• His Show: Mary has given up on ever getting married even though she's only 26.

And on a works page they would be like this:

My Show:

• Christmas Cake: Sara, as far as Bill Is concerned. She disagrees.

Your Show:

• Christmas Cake: Eloise, to the rest of the cast. She doesn't know this is how they think of her.

His Show:

• Christmas Cake: Mary considers herself one.

That makes sense.

edited 16th Oct '10 8:59:01 PM by Madrugada

Yea, that sounds about right.

Yeah, that sounds right.

Perfection