A Song Of Ice And Fire

I remember hearing that Tywin didn't like Gerion much. And I can't see a reason for Jon executing Stanis. Maybe he actually goes through with burning down the Winterfell Godswood, but I can't see any other reason.

So does any thinks that in the book Jon Snows survives or dies for good instead of being brought back to life like he was in the show why or why not?

It's way too big of a change to not also be in the books.

Seriously.

Also even if he's dead in the show (and since we never see it that's a rather large if, every major character death has happened on screen) I doubt Stannis is dead either, no matter what Brienne says.

Jon dies but he comes back as an undead fire wight just like Beric. Except when he comes back, he brings Ghost that is already melded to his soul back into his body(this would mean Ghost has to die).So Ghost is basically starting his second life in Jon.

So Jon will basically be a werewolf fire wight.

And that means Jon comes back vicious, lost memories to the point where he can't tell the difference between Farya and Arya, depersonalized, obsessed with taking back Winterfell(his final mission before his death), less noble and more power-hungry.

Follow up question will the book keep the gray vs grey conflict or will it shift to a black and white conflict like it has in the tv show?

Neither.

It'll be black versus dark gray versus nearly as dark gray versus gray.

Euron= Black

Cersei = Dark Gray

Daenerys= Nearly as Dark Gray

"Aegon"= Gray

There are no saints in war.

Daenerys' initial invasion is not a good thing for the people of Westeros. And she hasn't any good success in not bringing death and destruction on a region even if she has good intentions.

edited 7th Aug '17 11:28:57 AM by MadSkillz

Cool I'm glad the books are keeping it Dark Gray vs Black because it seems pointless to Gray vs Grey in your story for it to turn Black vs White or even Light Gray vs Black.

So I'm assuming in the books Jon Snow will become more morally gray instead of being the morally saintly person he is in the show.

I'd say he's already darker than the show version but yeah he'll get darker. But most of Jon's dubious actions thus far come from good intentions.

So for example, theres a situation where he's afraid Melisandre is going to burn Mance's baby cause he technically might have kingsblood since Mance is King Beyond the Wall. So he kidnaps Gilly's baby and forces her to switch them out. If she doesn't do it, he threatens to throw her baby in the fire and pushes her to hold her finger over a candle fire so she knows how much that hurts.

So Gilly goes south with Sam and forced to raise Mance's baby with the possibility that she'll see her son once he's grown up and raised by crows/the Night's Watch she despises but with greater likelihood that he'll be burned. Ultimately, Jon can't give any real guarantees that he could protect him or else he wouldn't have done this.

But then one of the big themes in the books is that you can't be a leader in a medieval society without staining your hands and there isn't some magically right choice with only good consequences.

Man, I miss Maester Aemon.

edited 7th Aug '17 12:21:02 PM by MadSkillz

I wish the Mutinty at Castle Black was a bit more closer to the books by having Sansa arriving at Castle Black before Jon was killed

edited 7th Aug '17 1:10:41 PM by warrior93

Wait, that's definitely not closer to the books either. Maybe you're thinking of Alys Karstark.

Sansa has a different plotline where she's at the Vale in the process of marrying Robin Arryn's heir, Harrold, since Robin's dying so she can become Lady of the Vale and take Winterfell from whomever is holding it when she invades.

When Jon and Sansa do meet, it'll likely be at Winterfell.

I kind of figure that the TV people were married to the idea of Sansa being with Ramsay so I figured having her escape to Castle Black while Jon was still alive would be closer to the books even though it wouldn't be 100 percent book accurate.

After Sansa arrives at Castle Black Ramsay would've sent a letter to Jon demanding he returns Sansa to him or else and Jon rides off to face Ramsay possibly even commanding some of his brothers to fight with him.

Also, it would make the mutineers actions more logically and less plot hole ridden because they would be killing Jon to prevent Ramsay from destroying the Watch.

edited 7th Aug '17 1:14:19 PM by warrior93

Yeah that would make more sense if Jon decided to lead the NW against the Boltons to go save Sansa after he hears about her escape and so he gets assassinated for it. It would be more consistent with Thorne's character on the show.

You think Walder Frey's sister continued to resent her spoiled prick of a brother for finking on her and getting her married to Ambrose Butterwell? If she ever tried to do something about it

I'm wondering what Freys weren't involved in the Red Wedding. Was Emmon?

Robb's Frey squire Olyvar wasn't apart of the red wedding.

I doubt Emmon was involved with the red wedding. He was already with team Lannister and Catelyn would likely know he was married into the Lannisters so he wouldn't be team north.

edited 10th Aug '17 1:43:44 AM by byakugan0889

The Lannister Freys aside from most of the Rosby Freys are, funnily enough, the most innocent.

The child Freys, the baby Freys and the Freys that weren't anywhere near the Twins are too. Every other Frey was likely in the know somehow.

I half-expect the Lannister Freys to inherit Casterly Rock and for Big Walder to get the Twins by the end of the series. The latter is almost something I'm sure of.

I love trying to imagine how they decided who was in and who was out.

They can't have just drawn a line in the sand and said "Right, we're murdering the Starks at a wedding, anyone who's not on board, don't be here" — someone would have blabbed (probably Olyvar). But at the same time, it's not a small conspiracy of plotters; apparently every Frey except those sent away knew at least some details of what was in store. So rather than putting their heads together and deciding who could be trusted with such a delicate secret, they had to decide which five or six people among their whole extended family wouldn't be on board with treason and atrocity.

It makes the Freys seem like such Card Carrying Villains. "Obviously we can trust X Y and Z, they'd be all [snivelly voice] "ohhh but the laws of gods and men, waa!". Pussies."

I wish we knew more about Aegon "Bloodborn" Frey. He's an outlaw and a Black Sheep by Frey standards, but given their patriarch's really low standards I suspect he's only a Black Sheep because he's an outlaw, not because he's a character. I have this minor headcanon he's not nearly as bad as guys like Ryman and Aenys Frey, just a standard robber and raider

There is something that confused from the first book: who tried to frame Tyrion? And tried to kill Jon Arryn?

Littlefinger.

Yep. The last Sansa chapter in ASOS spells it out.

Although the person that framed Tyrion was LF, Varys pretty much helped him out. Varys could've told Ned and Cat the truth since he knew but didn't.

Ooooh, this is a good prediction by PQ.

Basically we're getting Euron animating ironborn to be his wight army that he attacks the south with similar to Saruman had his own orcs. The wights will be the ironborn he sacrifices to beat Redwynes.

fitting considering Euron is pretty much George Martín saruman.

On the other hand, he is becoming pretty much a davy Jones Expy, he is this close to said "do you fear death?"

Translation of GRRM's interview in Russia.

Most interesting ones:

This was interesting. Cool interview by GRRM.

Anyone have any idea what he means by this? I've never read this book and I'm curious to know what he means.

edited 23rd Aug '17 6:39:04 PM by MadSkillz