During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
@hodor: Truthfully, I haven't read it. Except for his dying moment, the Jackal seems a rock-solid keeper. It depends how his feelings for his sister are treated as that makes or breaks it.
Btw, Bob: yea to yours
@EDIT: Hodor 2: Thank you, I was going for that. Also, that assessment pretty much sums up Eichhorst to a T. A pathetic nobody who somehow thinks committing atrocities will make him less of a pathetic nobody. Though, to be fair, his character and performance by Richard Sammel is definitely one of the most entertaining parts of the show. Along with David Bradley as his nemesis.
@ACW: Yep. That's it. Never bodes well when the reveal of your Big Bad's face elicits more laughter than fear from the audience.
@lighty snake: And a yes to the Master. Supremely heinous, though I do wish he had a more interesting personality. Still a sure fire keeper though.
edited 25th Apr '17 4:12:55 PM by OccasionalExister
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
The Master.
I was waiting to get this version of him up on the page.
Man.
The Ancients screwed the pooch on that one. Did they just forget what they were because they're so old or something?
You know the final season of The Strain is coming this year and I thought might discuss them after that season. Though I also watch the show myself so I'm comfortable on giving The Master and Eichorst both .
Well Lighty at least you'll have more time to EP You Know Who.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
I have no doubt you will. 
edited 25th Apr '17 4:03:09 PM by G-Editor
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
He's on the list, with a few others. I'll try to get to Saddler within a few days.
Unfortunately, no vampire alzheimers at play here. They just genuinely didn't bother telling Quinlan for...reasons best left unsaid.
I'd agree with Richard Sammell's performance, btw. It is, hands down, one of the best reasons to see the show. The Master counts in book and show but they're distinct enough to merit separate entries. Hell, Eichorst is onl in the book for one scene
edited 25th Apr '17 4:00:29 PM by Lightysnake
@Lightysnake- Thanks for the response.
I went and checked my copy of the book and this is how the death scene plays out (paraphrased):
So Darrow is watching the Jackal's death and how he's dying painfully since no one cares to help him and thinks to himself, "I cannot feel for him now. Not after all he's done." But then Darrow says, "But Mustang (Virginia) can" and basically motions her to Mercy Kill Jackal. So she goes over and pulls on his legs and whispers something to him, and Darrow's narration comments that she was "letting him know he was loved, even in the end."
So yeah, it definitely says a lot more about Virginia/Mustang than it does the Jackal, but it's an oddly muted and sympathetic to the villain way of ending a karmic death scene.
In terms of his overall relationship with her, it's basically that she loved loves/loved him and on some level he loved her, but she was repelled by his sociopathy (at one point she comments that he views others as nothing but bags of meat), and understandably, she was closer to her other brother who wasn't a raging sociopath. From the Jackal's perspective, he sees her as deserting/not caring about him the same way that their father did, but from Mustang's (a sane person's) perspective, she became distant from her father when he became a monster and understandably did the same when Jackal did the same and worse.
@Ocassional Exister- You're welcome, I think. I "think" you were responding to my post (but mention Hamburger Time).
edited 25th Apr '17 4:04:03 PM by Hodor2
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
to both Strain baddies.
@Hodor 2: Ah dang it. Now my house of lies comes tumbling down and the truth finally comes out... I can't read.
![[lol]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/lol2v12_4863.png "[lol]"){kind=small}
A yea to the Master. Looks like the inbred son of Orlok and Kermit the Frog, but he's quite heinous enough.
the Strain duo.
Lord of Hell
to The Master, ![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
to Blackwood...but now I want to rewatch Sherlock Holmes (2009)
Yes to Eichorst and the Master. I don't really think he looks that funny, but that's just me.
Okay to Dr. Gulik, Princess Ezel, Thomas Eichhorst (a Nazi vampire fanatic supervillain, don't get many of those) and The Master.
And yeah Eichhorst and the Master sound horrible, even compared to the other vampire qualifiers.
Yes to Ezel, the Master, and Eichhorst.
edited 25th Apr '17 5:39:05 PM by TommyFresh
Easy to Eichorst and the Master (he got better after he took over Marilyn Manson's body). to Ezel as well. And to Zack Goodweather.
edited 25th Apr '17 5:43:04 PM by Nithael
The Unknown Unknown
Playing catch up. Dr. Gulik, Princess Ezel, Thomas, and The Master.
The Merry Monarch of Darkness
The Master.
Wild Child
The Master.
I'm in the planning stages of another fanfic. Don't worry, it will be completed this time when the villain gets an EP and I'm not gonna be the one suggesting him. Any volunteers for when the time comes?
Dr. Gulik, Princess Ezel, Thomas, and The Master
Any thoughts on my suggestion here?
Ezel, the Jackal and the Strain duo.
Last call for votes on Dr. Gulik.
Axe that portion. There's similar gravedancing on a ton of the Kamen Rider entries as well.
Lighty, you mean thos
◊ Sardu? Yeah...that's...kinda silly looking. Should we wait until his arc's over, or is it like a Ramsay thing?
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts