During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
I'll do it if nobody else has.
I was gonna ask if maybe it could be me.
RIP Toriyama
Username 2527 reserved Kong: Skull Island a week or two ago.
Seriously guys, bookmark the Discussion Dates page. Then you won't have to ask about the stuff, you can just check.
If you're on mobile like I am most of the time, the links in Tyk and ACW's sigs don't show up, so I've just bookmarked the page itself, and I'd advise ithers to do the same.
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Daxus. It is a shit film but Daxus was downright nasty
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
I just requested someone to sticky this at the top of each page:
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed.
edited 23rd Mar '17 10:23:22 AM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Daxus, Shyamalan
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
And there it is at the top now 
. Hopefully people actually read it. Thanks Madrugada.
edited 23rd Mar '17 12:28:14 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Daxus, Shyamalan.
BTW, I was wondering: shouldn't we put a separate charachter sheet from Angel and Angelus on the Buffy page ? Just to differentiate' em.
edited 23rd Mar '17 12:47:56 PM by MovieFan2000
Messenger from another dimension.
I would support it, but that is a different thread topic.
Zzzzzzzzzz
Since I (and the other mods, too, if a post is hollered for jumping the gun) am going to be enforcing the two-week period, and since candidates from most "Series" are part of a longer arc, can I get a clarification on how the date is determined for series-es? End of the season? end of the arc the candidate is part of? something else?
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.
It can depend. Sometimes, the season...sometimes an episode.
RIP Toriyama
I'd say in general, we do it like so:
- If the villain lasts until the season finale, we discuss the villain two weeks after the finale regardless whether he survived said finale or not.
- If the villain dies in an episode other than the finale, we discuss said villain two weeks after that episode where he died.
- If the villain's "arc" finishes during, say, the MIDDLE of a season, BUT he is still alive (Maybe he gets locked up, or just escapes for the time being), we normally wait until two weeks after the season finale JUST to make sure he doesn't make one last appearance for the season.
That's how I look at it, at least.
edited 23rd Mar '17 1:07:11 PM by Ravok
Tonight I dine on monkey soup.
Possible keeper that I haven't heard discussion before even when I check the forums through the Google Search engine. Steely Dan from Jo Jo's Bizarre Adventure.
Who is he?
Steely Dan is one of the henchmen of Dio Brando in Stardust Crusaders. He is shown at first to be a person who asks for kebabs on the shop that charges money but reveals himself later on to extremely vile for Part 3.
What has he done?
After Steely Dan reveals himself he is explicitly shown to kill Enyaba in a brutal and disturbing way because of the implication that she might tell Jotaro and the gang about Dio's ability despite the fact that Enyaba even states that she wouldn't of done such a thing. Notably while no one here liked Enyaba at all they feel sorry at her due to the brutal ness of his stand and the fact that he simply killed her for practically no reason other than being almost worthless. He then goes on to use his stand The Lovers to get to Joseph's ear and cause the same death. After Jotaro punches him with Star Platinum it's then shown that any pain Dan causes is caused onto the person with double the effective power who's being effected by the Stand. He then goes on to taunt them about how they cannot beat him as Jotaro would just kill his grandfather. After Joseph, Kakyoin and Polnareff run away to deal with his ability by finding a TV he then decides to constantly torture Jotaro in various ways such as using him as a bridge or trying to get him beaten up by shopkeepers and even hurting himself to cause fatal damage to Joseph. After eventually his stand gets beaten he first tries to use his stand against Jotaro but due to Jotaro's abilities he ultimately gets his legs and arms broken. He then reveals to secretly be a dirty coward after Jotaro leaves by using a child as hostage as Jotaro could easily kill the child while laughing about it and then notably beat Jotaro and the others by stabbing them with a knife. When this fails he cowards once more before getting beaten by a 20 second No-Holds-Barred Beatdown by Jotaro being the second biggest in the series and seemingly killing him.
Freudian Excuse
None. His reasoning is because he wants to be rich and that's it but there's no seemingly good justification as to why other than just work for Dio and kill people. Jotaro even states that reason alone is not valid enough at all before giving him the beatdown. His true reason for wanting to kill the Joestars is later shown for thrills as he already would of been paid for killing Enyaba anyway.
Heinous
In terms of Part 3 alone it's a keep. He is the most vile henchmen of Dio besides J.Geil and maybe Alessi (Who I think might also count) and has pride in every action he has done and he has a 0% Approval Rating. While at first he seems to be just following Dio's orders he seems to enjoy what he does. In terms of the other parts this is where it gets interesting. Jo Jo has a tone of serial rapists and murderers like Angelo and Cioccolata but he does define himself with his other actions such as constantly torturing Jotaro, causing a brutal death on a child as a hostage and killing another henchmen and most of them seem to not like him at all. Dio (His own boss) doesn't seem to have any love for him either.
Verdict
A possible as he is given the second most painful beating in the entire series. None of the villains love him at all or even mention him again and the heroes easily hate him. It's more so the fact that he isn't a serial killer or rapist which makes this dude odd.
edited 23rd Mar '17 2:56:32 PM by ReynTime250
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Who gets the worst beating?
Anyway, to answer the question, like they said, it depends. The Big Bad? May be the season finale (or beyond). Arc Villain? May be mid-season. Monster of the Week? 2 weeks from the ep.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Cioccolata in Part 5. Steely Dan lasts for 20 seconds. Cioccolata lasts for 40. Cioccolata is also already a Complete Monster.
Messenger from another dimension.
Honestly, what does getting a worst beating have to do with being a Complete Monster? This thread established that villain's fate has nothing to do with them qualifying or not.
Welcome to the world of greatest media!
Does it not prove that the heroes ultimately hate him to hell and back compared to other villains?
Which has what to do with someone being a Complete Monster? I was under the impression that just because a bunch of characters really hate a villain doesn't necessarily make that villain a Complete Monster.
edited 23rd Mar '17 1:52:08 PM by dragonfire5000
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Actually, I was curious. But does have somewhat of a point...while the ultimate fate may not matter, how the character's treated In-Universe MAY matter; it may impact the heinous standard and how seriously they're taken.
edited 23rd Mar '17 1:50:10 PM by ACW
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Zzzzzzzzzz
Thanks. I've added a link to Ravok's post as a note on the calendar page.
...if you don’t love you’re dead, and if you do, they’ll kill you for it.![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Dan.
and Can you give your reasons why you don't think he counts? Giving a downvote without a reason behind it doesn't mean much at all. An actual reason would be nice.
Eh, they don't need to if they don't want to, but I do agree it's helpful when you disagree with a candidate to say why.
Again, not necessary. And I don't know Jo Jo, so I'm staying out of this one.
I'm sorry.
Anyway, who reserved the discussion on Kong: Skull Island tomorrow?