During the investigation of recent hollers in the Complete Monster thread, it's become apparent to the staff that an insular, unfriendly culture has evolved in the Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard threads that is causing problems.
Specific issues include:
- Overzealous hollers on tropers who come into the threads without being familiar with all the rules and traditions of the tropes. And when they are familiar with said rules and traditions, they get accused (with little evidence) of being ban evaders.
- A few tropers in the thread habitually engage in snotty, impolite mini-modding. There are also regular complaints about excessive, offtopic "socializing" posts.
- Many many thread regulars barely post/edit anywhere else, making the threads look like they are divorced from the rest of TV Tropes.
- Following that, there are often complaints about the threads and their regulars violating wiki rules, such as on indexing, crosswicking, example context and example categorization. Some folks are working on resolving the issues, but...
- Often moderator action against thread regulars leads to a lot of participants suddenly showing up in the moderation threads to protest and speak on their behalf, like a clique.
It is not a super high level problem, but it has been going on for years and we cannot ignore it any longer. There will be a thread in Wiki Talk
to discuss the problem; in the meantime there is a moratorium on further Complete Monster and Magnificent Bastard example discussion until we have gotten this sorted out.
Update: The new threads have been made and can be found here:
Please see the Frequently Asked Questions and Common Requests List before suggesting any new entries for this trope.
IMPORTANT: To avoid a holler to the mods, please see here for the earliest date a work can be discussed, (usually two weeks from the US release), as well as who's reserved discussion.
When voting, you must specify the candidate(s). No blanket votes (i.e. "![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/thumbs_up_emote.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
to everyone I missed").
No plagiarism: It's fair to source things, but an effortpost must be your own work and not lifted wholesale from another source.
We don't care what other sites think about a character being a Complete Monster. We judge this trope by our own criteria. Repeatedly attempting to bring up other sites will earn a suspension.
What is the Work
Here you briefly describe the work in question and explain any important setting details. Don't assume that everyone is familiar with the work in question.
Who is the Candidate and What have they Done?
This will be the main portion of the Effort Post. Here you list all of the crimes committed by the candidate. For candidates with longer rap sheets, keep the list to their most important and heinous crimes, we don't need to hear about every time they decide to do something minor or petty.
Do they have any Mitigating Factors or Freudian Excuse?
Here you discuss any potential redeeming or sympathetic features the character has, the character's Freudian Excuse if they have one, as well as any other potential mitigating factors like Offscreen Villainy or questions of moral agency. Try to present these as objectively as possible by presenting any evidence that may support or refute the mitigating factors.
Do they meet the Heinousness Standard?
Here you compare the actions of the Candidate to other character actions in the story in order to determine if they stand out or not. Remember that all characters, not just other villains, contribute to the Heinousness Standard
Final Verdict?
Simply state whether or not you think the character counts or not.
Edited by GastonRabbit on Aug 31st 2023 at 4:14:10 AM
So, no on Shredder, right?
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
You provide an effort post (the general form of one is on the second post of the first page) where you describe who the character is, what they do, if they're heinous by the standards of the story (like if the character is more heinous than most villains) if they have a Freudian Excuse or not, whether you believe said Freudian Excuse should disqualify them if the character does have on, any other potential mitigating factors (like a redeeming quality or whether or not the character is mentally ill) and end it with your final thoughts on whether or not you believe the character qualifies.
@Lightysnake
Are there any major changes to the story dependent on if you play as Corvo or Emily? Like, a potential disqualifying factor might not show up if you choose Corvo, but it would if you choose Emily or something like that?
edited 6th Dec '16 7:02:26 PM by Awesomekid42
I'd say nay on Shredder...I don't think he quite crosses the necessary line.
Well, basically...proposing the villain. Tell us about the series, who the villain is, what they do and why it breaches the heinous stsndard of the series. (IE: how it compares to what other villains do)
![[tdown]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_down_emoticon_3571.png "[thumb down]"){kind=small}
Shredder
The Unknown Unknown
![[tup]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/Thumbs_up_emoticon_3268.png "[thumb up]"){kind=small}
Zathir. At least it's an exception to the norm.
I think it goes without saying film!Shredder is a nay.
Do you guys want me to cut that Tragic Villain post on Super Buu?
...What? He's actually listed as that?
This is what I found on his character page
Tragic Villain: He came into being after Van Zant and his partner in crime mortally wounded Mr. Satan and Bee, his pet dog. Though Super Buu himself doesn't seem to care about this. Granted, upon his "birth", he passes up a chance to kill both of them, a courtesy he doesn't show anyone else.
I am more than happy to cut it
Lizzid people!
Shredder.
Your friendly neighborhood stank goblin
Go for it.
I think i might have a contender on a fanfic called Mega Man: Defender Of The Human Race. He's a fanon version of Dr. Wily whose somewhat like the Archie Comics original Dr. Robotnik.
According to the YMMV page, he's done this.
Episode 1: Kidnapping Rock and Roll and tormenting Dr. Light about how scared they looked as he carted them off to be reprogrammed, then ordering a reprogrammed Bomb Man to kill Light. Episode 3: Killing Doc while trying to kill Roll. Episode 5: Making Proto Man be a Heel–Face Mole for his plan. Episode 6: Kidnapping Kalinka Cossack to frame Mega Man, then shackling her to an ion bomb when he intervened. Episode 7: Torturing an innocent Metool by way of a direct pain program, and considering using it on Proto Man. Episode 8: Talking about wiping the female robot master's memory within earshot of her and ordering Drill Man on a suicide mission. This proves atrocious enough to make Drill Man pull a Heel–Face Turn. Episode 10: Giving a direct order for the Mega Man Killers to kill Kalinka right in front of Mega Man, in as painful a way as possible. When that fails, he forcibly takes control of the Ballade Crackers and detonates them right before Ballade's self-sacrifice. Episode 10 epilogue (Major spoiler!): Torturing Proto Man in cold blood after interrogating him, with a much more potent version of the pain program mentioned above. For hours. All because Proto Man refused to fight Mega Man once due to an injured girl who needed help. And, as revealed later in Episode 11, he also removed Proto Man's positive traits. Episode 11: Forcing Proto Man to verbally assault, betray, and vent against Mega Man during what was supposed to be a peaceful conversation, shattering their shaky familial bond. Then, in the climax, he orders Proto Man to kill Mega Man with the Mad Grinder, and reinstills the fear program in him so he won't rebel. ]
He could be worth looking at, but I'm not super comfortable with basing an entry solely on the trope page.
If you think he counts, read the fic and effortpost him. We're not voting based on a YMMV entry alone. You've frequented this thread long enough to know this.
@dantecito You forgot Harold Attinger from Transformers: Age of Extinction and Robert Dewey from Jason Bourne. They each pretended to be a Well-Intentioned Extremist.
edited 6th Dec '16 8:22:18 PM by futuremoviewriter
I guess I should find more evidence.
I propose Mr. Bartell from ''The Devil's Garden" (Originally titled Assault), a 1971 murder mystery film:
Who is he? What does he do?
Bartell rapes a schoolgirl named Tessa Hurst, resulting in her being put in a catatonic state. He later rapes and kills another schoolgirl named Susan Miller. The only witness, Julie West, the school's art teacher, is so hysterical, she envisions him as the devil, leaving the police without a face.
To catch the perpetrator, Julie offers to use herself as rape bait to draw the rapist in. Bartell goes to rape her in the woods, but he manages to escape before the cops can see him, though Hulie remains unharmed. Unfortunately, she still can't recall his face.
As the doctors and police are trying to bring Tessa out of her catatonia, Bartell murders a chemist in a store and turns off the fuses so that the place will explode when someone goes in their and lights a match. Bartell then goes to the hospital, as two people enter the chemist's place of business and accidentally blow the place up with a match while looking for the chemist in a dark room (Bartell likely left the body in there to ensure that if someone went looking for the chemist, they would end up searching that room and lighting a match). The explosion draws the attention of the police, who leave the hospital. Bartell tries to take the opportunity to kill Tessa before they can bring her out of catatonia, but Julie was left to watch over her, and she finally remembers Bartell's face. Bartell tries to kill Julie, but she escapes.
Julie runs to get the detective, but when they return, Bartell and Tessa are gone. The detective calls the other police, and they and Julie search the forest for Tessa and Bartell. Bartell is about to re-rape and kill Tessa (who has finally snapped out of her catatonia), when Julie arrives. Bartell tries to kill them both, but they scream for the police. Bartell tries to escape by climbing a pylon, but gets electrocuted and killed, ending the film.
Redeeming features or Freudian Excuse?
None.
Heinousness?
He is the only villain. He rapes two women, killing one of them, tries to kill the other during the climax, though not before raping her again, kills a man to serve as a distraction to the police, and tries to rape and kill one more woman. I say he passes.
jjj
The first chapter did explain his backstory. Apparently, he grew an interest in robotics because nobody that was human ever showed him love, including his father. He also has a Missing Mom. The author doesn't portray him as being sympathetic though even if it does explain his actions. It seems more like a cautionary tale as was the case with Lord Voldemort.
Oh wait, he brutalized his own father. I bet Thomas Light wouldn't have let Dr. Wily work with him if he knew about that, wouldn't you say? And after he died from a drunk driving accident he spat on his grave.
edited 6th Dec '16 9:41:00 PM by Cakeman
It's been 2 weeks since the movie's come out, so I'll keep this short and sweet:
No-one from Moana qualifies, or even comes close to qualifying.
edited 7th Dec '16 12:01:24 AM by toonyloon
Unofficial Wiki Curator for Complete Monster
Lighty, I ordered the last book of Wolfsmund. It's still a few months away, so how is it? Not surprised Wolfram's the only candidate though; he's a DICK, and a rare case where a Cruel and Unusual Death might've not gone far enough.
CM Dates; CM Pending; CM Drafts
Anybody else who wants to check for 
Wild Child
Since it's been two weeks, I guess it's time to "discuss" Moana. Let's just get this over with.
No one counts, plain and simple. There is no need for an effort-post, a voting, or even a discussion. Nobody qualifies.
Tamatoa the crab only appears in one scene, during which he doesn't even come close to this trope, and Te Ka is portrayed as a Woobie, Destroyer of Worlds with a valid Freudian Excuse and agency issues, as well as pulling a Heel–Face Turn. Aside from that, in her "angered" state, she is portrayed as a Generic Doomsday Villain — never speaking or communicating, and acting solely as an obstacle that the heroes have to surpass.
So there. No one counts, end of story.
Why so serious?
Hi, got the PM, it's my first time here, so how does this go exactly?